Who goes to heaven?
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01-02-2012, 04:24 PM
RE: Who goes to heaven?
Egor you notice a big difference between your post and KC's. He actually backs his arguments up with things he believes are good authority.

You dismiss the bible and basically just preach without giving any reason why you think the things you do. Please stop preaching. No one here wants to hear it.
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01-02-2012, 05:50 PM
 
RE: Who goes to heaven?
(01-02-2012 02:48 PM)kim Wrote:  
(01-02-2012 11:07 AM)Egor Wrote:  According to Jesus other people are simply destroyed (and that leaves the door open to reincarnation), but those who actively reject Christ will go to hell.

How does that leave the door open to reincarnation?

It's just a theory of mine, but it seems to me that destruction from a spiritual perspective would be what we experience in the world. We live in death; we live among the dead and decaying; a spirit that is put back into another body would be destroyed in the sense that it is stripped of whatever it had become in the previous life.

I don't have a good argument for this at the time, but it follows from the fact that the lake of fire can't really be burning, if we're talking about spirits and souls, and destruction can't really be ceasing to exist, if we're talking about spirits and souls. That's why I said it leaves the door open to reincarnation, or at least to speculate on it.


(01-02-2012 03:17 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(01-02-2012 11:07 AM)Egor Wrote:  The people who go to heaven are those who adopt the simplest form of Christianity, which is detailed in Luke 23:39-43. According to Jesus other people are simply destroyed (and that leaves the door open to reincarnation), but those who actively reject Christ will go to hell. Unfortunately, that means most of the atheists in these forums.

What the crap are you talking about?

I assume you're referring to Matthew 10:28
28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

I've heard the arguments for hell not being eternal based on the translation of the word apollumi. Frankly, it's ambiguous, at best, to conclude that a word that means "utterly destroy" or "am perishing" to be construed as the soul being annihilated. The context of the word is emphasizing the horrific nature of hell.

However, what is definitive is what Matthew 18:8 says
8 “If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire

Or Matthew 25:46
46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Or 2 Thessalonians 1:9
9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

I would even say that the very suggestion that hell isn't eternal for all those not under the blood of Christ is heretical; since it essentially makes Christ's sacrifice moot.

Also, atheists can't reject something they don't believe. So, under your whacked-out system, atheists are simply destroyed; not burning for eternity.

Okay, now I don't know what the heck you're talking about. When did I suggest hell wasn't eternal. It is eternal. I've never said otherwise.

And as for atheists, I hold out the possibility that there are some who were raised atheists as children and remained that way never concerning themselves at all with religion and therefore never really coming to understand Jesus Christ. That isn't the case with anyone in here, or in any forum I've ever been in in the last 18 years.

And even so, in this group, the atheists are well presented with the message of Jesus Christ and they choose to reject it.


(01-02-2012 04:24 PM)Godless Wrote:  Egor you notice a big difference between your post and KC's. He actually backs his arguments up with things he believes are good authority.

You dismiss the bible and basically just preach without giving any reason why you think the things you do. Please stop preaching. No one here wants to hear it.

I don't dismiss the Bible. When have I ever dismissed the Bible? But I do consider the OT to be reference material and the letters of the NT to be commentary, thus for me the central message of the Bible is contained in the four Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

And I love the "no one wants to hear it" remark. LOL. Tell that to the people making posts specifically for me to come in and debate. ROTFLMMFAO.
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01-02-2012, 07:01 PM
RE: Who goes to heaven?
(01-02-2012 10:08 AM)jimmygun Wrote:  According to my understanding nobody, especially believers go to heaven. The believer's soul maybe, but the things that make the believer an individual will be erased, things like empathy for example and replaced with only praise for a god.

There is no such thing.
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01-02-2012, 07:25 PM
RE: Who goes to heaven?
Isn't it curious that the main reason for religion, earning your way into to heaven, is explained so vaguely in the Bible. Wouldn't you think something that critical would be described in vivid detail and not open to interpretation.

It would be like following a recipe with hundreds of ingredients, measurements, and instructions but not knowing what the final product was going to be. Meanwhile everybody gets to guess whats for dinner based on what sounds yummy.

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02-02-2012, 01:08 AM
RE: Who goes to heaven?
Quote:Interestingly, logically, we would expect there to be no religion and no Bible, since those things only apply here on earth and would not work well with beings who are more able to create the way God creates things.

I love how I don't even need to leave the thread.

That and seriously I have not seen a single post of people asking for you to stay around. I've seen a lot of people calling you out for being mindless and petty with an ego the size of Texas.

Seriously.
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02-02-2012, 03:03 AM
RE: Who goes to heaven?
(01-02-2012 05:50 PM)Egor Wrote:  
(01-02-2012 02:48 PM)kim Wrote:  
(01-02-2012 11:07 AM)Egor Wrote:  According to Jesus other people are simply destroyed (and that leaves the door open to reincarnation), but those who actively reject Christ will go to hell.

How does that leave the door open to reincarnation?

It's just a theory of mine

No. It's just a wild guess of yours. Evolution is a theory because it has been scientifically proven. Evolution is "just a theory" just like gravitation and electromagnetism are "just theories". Say after me:
"It's a wild guess of mine. I made it for no good reason but I will believe it no matter what"

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

I would never shake a baby unless the recipe requires it.
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02-02-2012, 03:51 AM
RE: Who goes to heaven?
(01-02-2012 11:07 AM)Egor Wrote:  According to Jesus other people are simply destroyed (and that leaves the door open to reincarnation), but those who actively reject Christ will go to hell.

I just got these shoes and you want to dump this all over them? There are so many holes in these theories and beliefs that the only thing holding it all together is ... well, nothing is holding it together.

"I feel like the weight of the world has been lifted from my shoulders...
Thanks for getting off my back!"
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Arcticspear Idea
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02-02-2012, 08:38 AM
RE: Who goes to heaven?
My questions are aimed at those that believe in god, heaven and hell. If you die in Christ and go to heaven is it you or a ringer that has nothing to do with what you were on this earth that gets to go? As a human you had joy and sadness. You loved and were loved for earthly reasons. Those that you love may not be going to heaven and may suffer eternal torture for whatever finite crimes they may have committed. Will you still have your human traits of empathy and sadness for those people or will your humanity be erased? If your humanity is erased, they I contend that it is not you who gets to go to heaven but someone or something that will take your place.
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02-02-2012, 10:31 AM
RE: Who goes to heaven?
I thought Jesus said even those who break the commandments and teach others to do so are in Heaven, they just get called on the least?

The atheist becomes the meek lad in gym class who gets picked last for all the reindeer games.
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02-02-2012, 11:11 AM
RE: Who goes to heaven?
(02-02-2012 08:38 AM)jimmygun Wrote:  My questions are aimed at those that believe in god, heaven and hell. If you die in Christ and go to heaven is it you or a ringer that has nothing to do with what you were on this earth that gets to go? As a human you had joy and sadness. You loved and were loved for earthly reasons. Those that you love may not be going to heaven and may suffer eternal torture for whatever finite crimes they may have committed. Will you still have your human traits of empathy and sadness for those people or will your humanity be erased? If your humanity is erased, they I contend that it is not you who gets to go to heaven but someone or something that will take your place.

Yes . . . No . . . well, whichever is the best one, that's what happens. If you take this or that passage from the Bible, turn it on it's head, spin it this way and that, edit it, interpret it, and flip it I'm sure it will support what I want to believe. Which as I said is the good one.

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I am . . . until I'm not
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