Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
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11-11-2013, 03:14 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
(11-11-2013 03:06 AM)sporehux Wrote:  At quantum level we have string theory and a whole load of
We don't know so lets build a big ass colider and try and figure it out
Or we could just throw our hand in the air and say well lets
Retire and say the God of the gaps did it. Why learn anything new if a fairytale says. I know all therefore all that is to know I know.

"God of the Gaps" is atheist speak for an unreasonable assumption that nothing in nature could be used as evidence of God or the Supernatural. You can always hide behind this God of the Gaps scripture in any argument. Randomness exists in nature...where does it come from? Not hidden physical variables because Bell's theorem allows us to test for such things.
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11-11-2013, 03:18 AM (This post was last modified: 11-11-2013 03:22 AM by sporehux.)
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
Heywoods Church

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Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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11-11-2013, 03:22 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
(11-11-2013 03:10 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  An assertion made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. The honest answer is, that once we come to the edge of our knowledge, we simply admit 'we don't know'.

We don't know what causes the seeming randomness at the quantum level, and an honest observer acknowledges this. Unfortunately Heywood is not, instead he decides to insert his god, then tries to turn it around on non-believers while pretending like he has an adequate answer. Once again all Heywood as done is relabel his ignorance 'god'.

We do know that the randomness on the quantum level is not caused by hidden variables. Bell's theorem. I provided a video which explains what Bell's theorem implies. My assertion....that randomness exists and is not caused by hidden physical variables is not without supporting evidence. Your counter claim is the one that lacks support.
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11-11-2013, 03:23 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
(11-11-2013 03:14 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(11-11-2013 03:06 AM)sporehux Wrote:  At quantum level we have string theory and a whole load of
We don't know so lets build a big ass colider and try and figure it out
Or we could just throw our hand in the air and say well lets
Retire and say the God of the gaps did it. Why learn anything new if a fairytale says. I know all therefore all that is to know I know.

"God of the Gaps" is atheist speak for an unreasonable assumption that nothing in nature could be used as evidence of God or the Supernatural. You can always hide behind this God of the Gaps scripture in any argument. Randomness exists in nature...where does it come from? Not hidden physical variables because Bell's theorem allows us to test for such things.

Name something in nature that's random.
I dont know of anything ,

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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11-11-2013, 03:24 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
(11-11-2013 03:23 AM)sporehux Wrote:  
(11-11-2013 03:14 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  "God of the Gaps" is atheist speak for an unreasonable assumption that nothing in nature could be used as evidence of God or the Supernatural. You can always hide behind this God of the Gaps scripture in any argument. Randomness exists in nature...where does it come from? Not hidden physical variables because Bell's theorem allows us to test for such things.

Name something in nature that's random.
I dont know of anything ,

Atomic decay
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11-11-2013, 03:26 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
(11-11-2013 03:18 AM)sporehux Wrote:  Heywoods Church

[Image: gap-shop.jpg]

Attack the man since you can't attack the argument...right Sporehux?
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11-11-2013, 03:26 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
(11-11-2013 03:02 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(11-11-2013 02:50 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  True randomness does not exist. It is a concept. It's something we say when we cannot or are not willing to sort out all the variables.

Bells theorem says you are wrong.





The implication of Bell's theorem is that there is something unphysical generating the randomness our world depends upon.

In quantum mechanics we could still calculate the odds of something happening with enough information. Lack of certainty isn't the same thing as randomness. Also, that is not the implication. God of the gaps, mon frere...

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11-11-2013, 03:29 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
(11-11-2013 03:22 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  We do know that the randomness on the quantum level is not caused by hidden variables. Bell's theorem. I provided a video which explains what Bell's theorem implies. My assertion....that randomness exists and is not caused by hidden physical variables is not without supporting evidence. Your counter claim is the one that lacks support.


Randomness isn't really random, and therefore it's the work of your god?

Yeah, try again Heywood... Drinking Beverage

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11-11-2013, 03:29 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
(11-11-2013 03:26 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  In quantum mechanics we could still calculate the odds of something happening with enough information. Lack of certainty isn't the same thing as randomness. Also, that is not the implication. God of the gaps, mon frere...

You can never predict when an specific uranium atom will decay. It is completely random. What is generating that randomness? Not some hidden physical variable because Bell's theorem allows us to test for the existence of such things.
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11-11-2013, 03:35 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
(11-11-2013 03:24 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(11-11-2013 03:23 AM)sporehux Wrote:  Name something in nature that's random.
I dont know of anything ,

Atomic decay

Prove its random and not caused by some constant or variable that we have yet to discover...

I think the dice were rolled at the big bang, (maybe someone shouting yahtzee very loudly..) setting the constants at that point, that allowed the universe to develop as we see it now.. because everything since then has happened according to these constants.

A lot of the things that are considered random were in days past attributed to the mood of a particular god, then considered random again and then found that we can predict them.. i.e. no longer random.

The idea of randomness in the universe is falling to science.
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