Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
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11-11-2013, 03:38 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
(11-11-2013 03:29 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Randomness isn't really random, and therefore it's the work of your god?

You're pretty close EK.

Randomness isn't really random. Apparent randomness exists and logically it cannot be generated from some hidden physical variables and therefore must be the generated from non physical variables.
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11-11-2013, 03:41 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
(11-11-2013 03:35 AM)PursuingTruth Wrote:  Prove its random and not caused by some constant or variable that we have yet to discover...

Bell's theorem proves it is not caused by some constant or variable that we have yet to discover...

I said that about 10 times in this thread already.....pay attention man.
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11-11-2013, 03:41 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
(11-11-2013 03:29 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(11-11-2013 03:26 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  In quantum mechanics we could still calculate the odds of something happening with enough information. Lack of certainty isn't the same thing as randomness. Also, that is not the implication. God of the gaps, mon frere...

You can never predict when an specific uranium atom will decay. It is completely random. What is generating that randomness? Not some hidden physical variable because Bell's theorem allows us to test for the existence of such things.
if I half fill a bucket of water . Punch a small hole, throw 50 golf balls in it and spin it around the water will decay randomly. Is this proof of god. ?

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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11-11-2013, 03:46 AM (This post was last modified: 11-11-2013 03:51 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
(11-11-2013 03:38 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(11-11-2013 03:29 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Randomness isn't really random, and therefore it's the work of your god?

You're pretty close EK.

Randomness isn't really random. Apparent randomness exists and logically it cannot be generated from some hidden physical variables and therefore must be the generated from non physical variables.

Logic in and of itself is not 'proof' of anything in reality, because there maybe some other principle or variable at work that you are simply unaware of; and what might seem logically 'impossible' may not only be possible, but probable.

Say that what you posit is true, now defend your reasoning for labeling a 'non-physical variable' as 'god'. Outside of fiat and plain assertion, I don't see how you can defend that claim; let alone get from a force of nature to a specific interventionist desert war god who sacrificed himself to himself to please himself.

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11-11-2013, 03:50 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
Not pleases himself, forgive himself for fraking up the creation of supposed perfect images of himself.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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11-11-2013, 03:57 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
(11-11-2013 03:46 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(11-11-2013 03:38 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  You're pretty close EK.

Randomness isn't really random. Apparent randomness exists and logically it cannot be generated from some hidden physical variables and therefore must be the generated from non physical variables.

Logic in and of itself is not 'proof' of anything in reality, because there maybe some other principle or variable at work that you are simply unaware of; and what might seem logically 'impossible' is not only possible, but probable.

Say that what you posit is true, now defend your reasoning for labeling a 'non-physical variable' as 'god'. Outside of fiat and plain assertion, I don't see how you can defend that claim; let alone get from a force of nature to a specific interventionist desert war god who sacrificed himself to himself to please himself.

I am using this observation in nature as evidence for God because it is the type of observation you would expect to see if God exists. I'm not claiming it proves God's existence but it certainly supports my belief that God exists.

Conversely it should weaken your belief that God does not exist if it doesn't convince you of His existence.
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11-11-2013, 03:58 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
(11-11-2013 03:41 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(11-11-2013 03:35 AM)PursuingTruth Wrote:  Prove its random and not caused by some constant or variable that we have yet to discover...

Bell's theorem proves it is not caused by some constant or variable that we have yet to discover...

I said that about 10 times in this thread already.....pay attention man.

Does it? I thought bells theory PROMOTED the fact that there are hidden variables or constants and was really focussed on denying the assumptions made by QM, those of locality and realism, and did not Alain Aspect prove that QM does not have all the answers, supporting Bells theory.

To use the denial of a theory as proof of randomness is a false dilemma, just because QM cant explain it, does not mean that there is no other explanation for it.
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11-11-2013, 04:07 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
Rain appears on the ground out of the sky randomly.
2000 years ago God did it. And rainbows and double rainbows.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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11-11-2013, 04:08 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
And we cant predict the weather to any great extent.. surely.. surely, that is evidence of god and randomness
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11-11-2013, 04:13 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
(11-11-2013 03:58 AM)PursuingTruth Wrote:  Does it? I thought bells theory PROMOTED the fact that there are hidden variables or constants and was really focussed on denying the assumptions made by QM, those of locality and realism, and did not Alain Aspect prove that QM does not have all the answers, supporting Bells theory.

To use the denial of a theory as proof of randomness is a false dilemma, just because QM cant explain it, does not mean that there is no other explanation for it.

Quote:Bell’s theorem essentially boils down to a proof that the result of an experiment doesn’t exist until the measurement is made (so it can’t be predicted). Hidden variable theory presupposes that the particles involved are in definite states, which means that the result of a measurement already exists before the measurement is made. For example: before you open a gift what you’ll see is already set in stone. The gift is a set thing before you open the box. This is not the case for most quantum mechanical systems.

God does play dice with the universe
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