Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
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11-11-2013, 06:42 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
(11-11-2013 05:41 AM)PursuingTruth Wrote:  Whereas Laws such as thermodynamics apply regardless of situation and generate these 'best guess' explanations that seem to hook the interest of the shallow minded as fact and gospel. When there is proof something does not apply, a better explanation must be sought, this is the lifeblood of scientific progress.

This demonstrates that you don't understand what a scientific theory is. Your description of a law is false. Again you are appealing to some non-existent epistemic hierarchy where a theory sits in an inferior position to a law. A law is a description of behaviour under specific circumstances it is not a "super theory".
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11-11-2013, 06:43 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
(11-11-2013 06:34 AM)Chippy Wrote:  
(11-11-2013 05:50 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Or that you did read it but decided to cut no slack for inelegant sentence construction?

That because it sows the seeds of confusion.

Say "QM hasn't been falsified" or "QM remains a valid theory", not "QM remains a theory". The last implies QM can become something other than a theory or that it is in an epistemically inferior position.

Ah! OK. So you were simply cutting no slack.

You are, of course, correct... but in context of the whole sentence there was no confusion (in my mind, at least).

Above, in post #47, you mention that ol' chestnut of "just a theory". PT did not say that.

No need for the tangent.

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11-11-2013, 06:50 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
(11-11-2013 06:38 AM)PursuingTruth Wrote:  ahh I see.. no offense meant chippy, I totally didnt mean it 'just a theory'.. they are bloody good theories.. Tongue which unfortunately have been proven to be inaccurate.. This does not dismay scientist, as that proof allows them to find better approximations that lead to greater understanding.

No problem.

Of course every theory is provisional, I understand that.

Also, a law is not "better" than a theory. A theory doesn't become a law. That is a common misconception. A law is a specification of the content of a theory with respect to certain conditions. We can have laws in quantitative evolutionary biology but evolution stays a theory it is not transformed into a law. A law is not a superior version of a theory.
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11-11-2013, 08:39 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
I haven't gone through all 6 pages because I'm lazy like that and as far as that video goes, I made it to 36 seconds when I realized I had heard this guys bullshit before.

Randomness is a human observation of events in which we don't know the outcome.
Chaos is also a human observation of in which we see unorganized bits.

Nothing is random. It only seems like a roll of the dice is random, when in fact it's just physics in motion
The universe is physics in motion and thus also not chaotic

That's really probably all I'm going to say on the topic
For me this is like arguing about the number 5 and trying to decide if it's a random number or if it's shape looks chaotic.

Just asinine

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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11-11-2013, 09:14 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
Not getting the link between *randomness occurs* and *God makes things random*.

Randomness occurs therefore some hyper-intelligent entity who happens to be invisible *and* look like a human *and* who cares about what people do with their junk is hiding down at quantum level carefully squirting randomness into each and every experiment ? Truly, a mighty God is this, his power must be limitless if he can do all that.

And despite his great love for us, that love which passeth understanding, the love wherewith he nailed his son to a plank at an arbitrarily selected point in history, he *still* doesn't see fit to stop a war or even just to knock out one guy like Hitler... or to stop a rapist... or to feed a hungry kid... but *once* these ape descendants die he gonna *cook* the fuckers if they failed to accept him into their made-of-atoms-totally-controlled-by-God hearts.

How... I don't even... Why are we even discussing this ? I felt stupid just typing out this post. Goddamn theists Sad

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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11-11-2013, 09:41 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
Heywood...you disappoint me.

After all your name calling and nastiness you bring up the god of the gaps, are shown a picture of The Gap and you want to cry about it. I really thought you had thicker skin.

Anyway it was a joke...and it was kind of funny in a mood-lightening way. Get over yourself.

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11-11-2013, 09:56 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
(11-11-2013 02:34 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  This is a thread about randomness and I think Dr Polis does a good job in this video about explaining what randomness is.

Dr Polis talks about randomness

The randomness that we observe in nature, where does it come from? What is generating it? As a theist, I can say God is throwing the dice, but what can atheists point too?

What randomness? There are scientific reasons for everything regardless of whether we understand them.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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11-11-2013, 10:27 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
(11-11-2013 06:50 AM)Chippy Wrote:  No problem.

Of course every theory is provisional, I understand that.

Also, a law is not "better" than a theory. A theory doesn't become a law. That is a common misconception. A law is a specification of the content of a theory with respect to certain conditions. We can have laws in quantitative evolutionary biology but evolution stays a theory it is not transformed into a law. A law is not a superior version of a theory.

Of course not, a theory spawns Laws and laws spawn theories, they are not superior or subservient to each other, they are part of the same system.

I do phrase these points badly Tongue (particularly this one) but the essence of what I mean is that, Laws do not tolerate deviation, or randomness.. Theories may have deviation and (apparant) randomness within them, but all this does is show that they have to be refined.
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11-11-2013, 10:50 AM
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
(11-11-2013 08:39 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  I haven't gone through all 6 pages
6 pages? 6 pages?

User CP > Edit options > Thread View Options > Show 50 post per page

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11-11-2013, 10:57 AM (This post was last modified: 11-11-2013 07:34 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Who or what throws the dice for atheists?
(11-11-2013 03:29 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  You can never predict when an specific uranium atom will decay. It is completely random. What is generating that randomness? Not some hidden physical variable because

It is not "completely random". The decay rates of Uranium can be calculated, and the factors that influence the rate are known, and can be calculated. That's how atom bombs work, and how nuclear power works.

Polis contradicts himself about 5 times in the video. There is no such thing as "randomness" (for macro events) in this universe, (even Polis said that).
The probability of macro events isn't in ANY WAY determined by the state of the observer's knowledge, (as Polis claims)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randomness

Order, in this universe arises SPONTANEOUSLY, and requires no gods.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory

If you don't like having all your stuff dismissed as "god of the gaps", then stop making god of the gaps arguments.

It is yet another god of the gaps pile of rubbish. He says "atheists like to do thus and so" .. irrelevant assertion.
The events which lead to mutations in Evolution are not "random", and atheists DO NOT make the argument he claims.
They also do not any longer make the argument, or need to make the argument, using QM to debunk "free will".

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