Who was Saint Paul?
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17-08-2015, 04:32 PM (This post was last modified: 17-08-2015 04:40 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(17-08-2015 10:33 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(15-08-2015 10:57 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Mmmmmm.

I must admit I never thought that Paul could've been referring to Mary.

But....Jewish lineage wasn't thought of as being transferred through the mother, only the father. Mum was only the "nest" where the seed (ie the embryo) was planted.

Many years later a big deal was made of Joseph's lineage in two of the Gospels to prove Jeebus was of the seed of David...not Mary's lineage.

Bucky...what's your opinion on this?

Many Christian apologists will claim that one of the genealogies is Joseph's, and the other one is Mary's, and that's why they don't match. So they're trying to have their cake and eat it too. Actually, both genealogies clearly end with Joseph, and Mary is not mentioned at all. Of course they also both claim that Joseph is not Jesus's real father, so I'm not sure why we should even care whether or not Joseph is descended from King David. I think that both genealogies are fabricated (along with both nativity stories).

Agreed. Obviously both genealogies can't be right, so at least one is fabricated. One of them goes back to Adam, so is obviously bullshit.

There is talk amongst some of the church fathers about the "gospel of the Nazarenes" from which Matthew's genealogy, maybe, just maybe, might have been derived. Sounds like more bullshit to me.
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17-08-2015, 04:43 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
Any comments on my second spiel about Paul? (#103)

It's...not...too...boring...to...read....is it?Huh
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17-08-2015, 04:47 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(17-08-2015 04:43 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Any comments on my second spiel about Paul? (#103)

It's...not...too...boring...to...read....is it?Huh

I read about half of the first one, and was enjoying it, but then had to skip the rest.

I have to confess -- I do most of my TTAing at work in between tech support calls (what I do for a living), so it tends to be in small chunks, and it's really difficult for me to read long posts. I did like what I read so far, though...

Maybe I'll get to the second one tomorrow (almost time to go home now).
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17-08-2015, 06:07 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(17-08-2015 09:59 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(17-08-2015 08:59 AM)Free Wrote:  Learn to read, or do I need to school you in how to read as well?

You make the mistake of equating Christianity with Messianic Judaism, while totally forgetting that the Christian Gentiles were completely distinct from the early messianic Jews who followed the original apostles in and around Jerusalem.

You can't "school" anyone in anything. You are the one who says you know what Paul thought, and quote him. He says he went to Jerusalem, and got his gospel from them. So you convenitntly use him when you choose to. Paul was not a "gentile". He was an apocalyptic Jew.

(17-08-2015 08:59 AM)Free Wrote:  You know damn well I am correct, because we have discussed this in other threads. And you also know that when the temple was destroyed, those messianic Jews dispersed to various other territories to avoid Roman persecution.

Irrelevant. They remained messianic Jews.

(17-08-2015 08:59 AM)Free Wrote:  They were distinct from the Gentile Christian sect, and nowhere were they ever compared.

Prove it. You make assersions, yet you never back them up.

(17-08-2015 08:59 AM)Free Wrote:  Again, learn to read.

People who don't know what a "son of god" means, should not be telling people to learn to read.

(17-08-2015 08:59 AM)Free Wrote:  You just keep that in mind. You have no idea who I am, and do not know much about me.

I know enough to get that the subtleties of Hebrew culture escape you completely, and enough to know that you quote the gospels as if there were the truth.

(17-08-2015 08:59 AM)Free Wrote:  Are you phishing for info on who I am? It will never work, dude.

I am not. You have already demonstrated time and again you are nothing but an amateur.

(17-08-2015 08:59 AM)Free Wrote:  So you keep following, while I keep leading, okay?

Right. Leading the fiction writers. You just keep telling yourself that.

I will simply let you go on with your hissy fit, as there are more productive things to do on this thread rather than listening to you prattle about what you think of me.

I will leave you with this:

Yes, I am arrogant.
Yes, I have a degree in ancient history from over 30 years ago.
Yes, I am an amateur historian, since I chose to not earn a living from it in favour of my other far more marketable skills.
Yes, I know what I am talking about, and you simply do not yet have the education to understand it.
Yes, I was published.
Yes, I personally know and occasionally consult with some of the world's top scholars including Steve Mason & Alice Whealy, and to a lessor degree, Bart Ehrman and a few others.

My weaknesses in ancient history are in the Hebrew language, or any Semitic languages, which is why you don't see me comment much at all on the Torah.

My strengths in ancient history are my abilities to immerse myself into the culture to learn the lexicon of the time, as well as any idioms. My speciality is Tacitian, and am recognized as an authority.

Soon I will be involved in the debate between Bart and Robert, providing it actually happens. You won't see me, but if you listen to Bart very carefully on his position on Tacitus, you will damn well know where he got his arguments from.

So, you can carry on with your doubts and your insults, but nothing is going change here today, or any other day.

So, putting that all aside, why are you not helping Mark out here?

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17-08-2015, 06:10 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(17-08-2015 04:43 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Any comments on my second spiel about Paul? (#103)

It's...not...too...boring...to...read....is it?Huh

I'm still on the 1st.

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17-08-2015, 06:49 PM (This post was last modified: 17-08-2015 07:22 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(17-08-2015 06:07 PM)Free Wrote:  Yes, I know what I am talking about, and you simply do not yet have the education to understand it.

Spare me the patronizing bs. I already have more formal education than you do. The problem with people who have degrees in Ancient History but not in Semitic Languages and Cultures, is they make exactly the sorts or errors you have made here in this thread. Hebrew culture was vastly different from Roman and Greek culture.

(17-08-2015 06:07 PM)Free Wrote:  My weaknesses in ancient history are in the Hebrew language, or any Semitic languages, which is why you don't see me comment much at all on the Torah.

I know that. At least you admit it.

(17-08-2015 06:07 PM)Free Wrote:  So, you can carry on with your doubts and your insults, but nothing is going change here today, or any other day.

The reason I poke at you, is because you are arrogant : "I know what St. Paul thought". LMAO

(17-08-2015 06:07 PM)Free Wrote:  So, putting that all aside, why are you not helping Mark out here?

Because he doesn't need my help, and my interest in in earlier Jewish history, not the early Christian period, (except insofar as it developed organically from the Jewish Apocalyptic period). Paul is a perfectly organic extension of that period. Without a knowledge of it, he cannot be understood.

You claim you know Ehrman, (despite using his name along with Carrier's in an insult to me, today). Really ? Right. Cough cough. Do we have a teensy weensy bit of grandiose delusions ? Maybe then you ought to read his latest book : "How Jesus Became God: The Exaltation of a Jewish Preacher from Galilee". He says EXACTLY what I've been saying here. I wrote my linked paper here before he published the book. I got none of the ideas in it from him.

You on the other hand, despite claiming you are published, have written nothing for TTA, or linked to nothing academic, ever.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-08-2015, 08:01 PM (This post was last modified: 17-08-2015 08:10 PM by Free.)
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(17-08-2015 06:49 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You on the other hand, despite claiming you are published, have written nothing for TTA, or linked to nothing academic, ever.

You do not know what I write. I will not tell you either. You can even Google what I write here and not find it online anywhere, because I am very careful and need to be.

My work is out there either under my real name, or under my nom de plume. I do not write under "Free" any more than you would write anything serious as Bucky Ball.

Who the fuck does that?

But I write for many different causes, and history is just one of them, and history is by no means the main reason I write. Most of the work I do, and things I write, are in relation to Islamic Terrorism. I know more about Islam than most Muslims.

I am an atheist to the core, and despite what you see me say on this forum about Christianity, it is absolutely nothing compared to what I write in regards to Islam. From my atheist position, I attack the greatest threat against humanity in history; Islam. I won't say much here about Islam, because anyone can Google what i say, and create a chain of evidence to find out who I am.

Suffice to say, I have received many death threats.

And that is the #1 reason why you, nor anyone else here, can never know my name, except for one person whom I can indeed trust.

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17-08-2015, 08:15 PM (This post was last modified: 17-08-2015 08:22 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(17-08-2015 08:01 PM)Free Wrote:  You do not know what I write. I will not tell you either. My work is out there either under my real name, or under my nom de plume. I do not write under "Free" any more than you would write anything serious as Bucky Ball.

Who the fuck does that?

But I write for many different causes, and history is just one of them, and history is by no means the main reason I write. Most of the work I do, and things I write, are in relation to Islamic Terrorism. I know more about Islam than most Muslims.

I am an atheist to the core, and despite what you see me say on this forum about Christianity, it is absolutely nothing compared to what I write in regards to Islam. From my atheist position, I attack the greatest threat against humanity; religion in all its guises.

And that is the #1 reason why you, nor anyone else here, can never know my name.

Oh dear. Rolleyes Whatever you say dear.
I never once asked for your name. I don't want your name. I simply commented on the fact that you've never written a scholarly paper here, including on Islam. Hmmmm.
Consider ... Consider ... Consider

Laugh out load

Tell us Free, why did Muslims get so upset about the "Satanic Verses", and what do/did they allude to in the history of Islam ?
What do you think of Robert Spencer's ideas ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-08-2015, 08:30 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(17-08-2015 08:15 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(17-08-2015 08:01 PM)Free Wrote:  You do not know what I write. I will not tell you either. My work is out there either under my real name, or under my nom de plume. I do not write under "Free" any more than you would write anything serious as Bucky Ball.

Who the fuck does that?

But I write for many different causes, and history is just one of them, and history is by no means the main reason I write. Most of the work I do, and things I write, are in relation to Islamic Terrorism. I know more about Islam than most Muslims.

I am an atheist to the core, and despite what you see me say on this forum about Christianity, it is absolutely nothing compared to what I write in regards to Islam. From my atheist position, I attack the greatest threat against humanity; religion in all its guises.

And that is the #1 reason why you, nor anyone else here, can never know my name.

Oh dear. Rolleyes Whatever you say dear.
I never once asked for your name. I don't want your name. I simply commented on the fact that you've never written a scholarly paper here, including on Islam. Hmmmm.
Consider ... Consider ... Consider

Laugh out load

Tell us Free, why did Muslims get so upset about the "Satanic Verses", and what do/did they allude to in the history of Islam ?
What do you think of Robert Spencer's ideas ?

They get upset because history proves that those verses were in the original Qur'an. Muslims like to claim the current Qur'an is the same as what Muhammad wrote, but it is far from it.

Those verses speak of 3 goddesses, which completely contradict Islamic monotheism.

I support Robert Spencer, and am a member of Jihad Watch, and have been since Day 1.

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17-08-2015, 08:35 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(17-08-2015 08:30 PM)Free Wrote:  
(17-08-2015 08:15 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Oh dear. Rolleyes Whatever you say dear.
I never once asked for your name. I don't want your name. I simply commented on the fact that you've never written a scholarly paper here, including on Islam. Hmmmm.
Consider ... Consider ... Consider

Laugh out load

Tell us Free, why did Muslims get so upset about the "Satanic Verses", and what do/did they allude to in the history of Islam ?
What do you think of Robert Spencer's ideas ?

They get upset because history proves that those verses were in the original Qur'an. Muslims like to claim the current Qur'an is the same as what Muhammad wrote, but it is far from it.

Those verses speak of 3 goddesses, which completely contradict Islamic monotheism.

I support Robert Spencer, and am a member of Jihad Watch, and have been since Day 1.

And who are those "goddesses" exactly, and where did they come from ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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