Who was Saint Paul?
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23-08-2015, 09:34 AM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(22-08-2015 01:56 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(22-08-2015 12:54 PM)Alla Wrote:  But what does Spirit teach?

It's rather hard for non-existent entities to teach anything.

I agree with this statement.
But I didn't mention any non-existent entities. Smile
P.S. If Spirit doesn't teach you it doesn't mean He doesn't teach me.

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23-08-2015, 06:05 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(22-08-2015 10:47 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Mark,

I must commend you for an extremely well researched piece. I am very impressed with your work and your insight.

Without the full text to review, there may be one avenue that you didn’t bring up (though you did allude to it). I would have to do the research on it to really pin it down, but if this is common knowledge or if you discuss it in depth elsewhere in your writing, then I won’t bother looking up my resources on this.

As you stated, somewhere in the NT, Paul said to be a student of Gamliel. You also suggested that this was unlikely to have been true. Gamliel was one of the leading Torah authorities of his day, and so his high profile students are known to us because we have a record of them within Jewish sources. Not surprisingly, Paul isn’t mentioned.

But I suppose that wouldn’t be especially interesting if the Jews are attempting to conceal their connection to Paul out of fear of giving credibility to his teaching.

No, the clincher here is in Paul’s apparent inability to speak or read Hebrew. As a student of Gamliel, Paul would have been required to speak, read and write Hebrew and Aramaic. In fact, in a particular point in the NT, Paul quotes from the Hebrew Scriptures, but he quotes from the Greek translation which has a very well-known translation error. I can say with confidence that no self-respecting Jew in any era would choose to read the scriptures from a translation if he or she was able to do so in Hebrew. The nuances in the Hebrew language give a depth and breadth to the words that are lost in other languages. His use of a Greek translation serves as a tell-tale sign that he lacked any formal, proper Jewish education at all.

(Edited for posting error)

Good points.

Thanks for your nice comments.

It appears as though Paul argued with James and Peter. It would be very unlikely that either of those two spoke Greek. So Paul may have spoken Aramaic, although I'm not sure about that.
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23-08-2015, 06:34 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(23-08-2015 06:05 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(22-08-2015 10:47 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Mark,

I must commend you for an extremely well researched piece. I am very impressed with your work and your insight.

Without the full text to review, there may be one avenue that you didn’t bring up (though you did allude to it). I would have to do the research on it to really pin it down, but if this is common knowledge or if you discuss it in depth elsewhere in your writing, then I won’t bother looking up my resources on this.

As you stated, somewhere in the NT, Paul said to be a student of Gamliel. You also suggested that this was unlikely to have been true. Gamliel was one of the leading Torah authorities of his day, and so his high profile students are known to us because we have a record of them within Jewish sources. Not surprisingly, Paul isn’t mentioned.

But I suppose that wouldn’t be especially interesting if the Jews are attempting to conceal their connection to Paul out of fear of giving credibility to his teaching.

No, the clincher here is in Paul’s apparent inability to speak or read Hebrew. As a student of Gamliel, Paul would have been required to speak, read and write Hebrew and Aramaic. In fact, in a particular point in the NT, Paul quotes from the Hebrew Scriptures, but he quotes from the Greek translation which has a very well-known translation error. I can say with confidence that no self-respecting Jew in any era would choose to read the scriptures from a translation if he or she was able to do so in Hebrew. The nuances in the Hebrew language give a depth and breadth to the words that are lost in other languages. His use of a Greek translation serves as a tell-tale sign that he lacked any formal, proper Jewish education at all.

(Edited for posting error)

Good points.

Thanks for your nice comments.

It appears as though Paul argued with James and Peter. It would be very unlikely that either of those two spoke Greek. So Paul may have spoken Aramaic, although I'm not sure about that.

For what it's worth ...

Act 21:40 And he allowing him, standing on the stairs, Paul signaled with his hand to the people. And much silence taking place, he spoke in the Hebrew dialect, saying:

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23-08-2015, 08:58 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(23-08-2015 06:34 PM)Free Wrote:  
(23-08-2015 06:05 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Good points.

Thanks for your nice comments.

It appears as though Paul argued with James and Peter. It would be very unlikely that either of those two spoke Greek. So Paul may have spoken Aramaic, although I'm not sure about that.

For what it's worth ...

Act 21:40 And he allowing him, standing on the stairs, Paul signaled with his hand to the people. And much silence taking place, he spoke in the Hebrew dialect, saying:

Oh...that's interesting! The author of Acts was obviously very aware of the language issue. That is why he had the holy spirit magically teach the apostles to speaking many different languages (or some such silly nonsense.)
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23-08-2015, 09:05 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(23-08-2015 08:58 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(23-08-2015 06:34 PM)Free Wrote:  For what it's worth ...

Act 21:40 And he allowing him, standing on the stairs, Paul signaled with his hand to the people. And much silence taking place, he spoke in the Hebrew dialect, saying:

Oh...that's interesting! The author of Acts was obviously very aware of the language issue. That is why he had the holy spirit magically teach the apostles to speaking many different languages (or some such silly nonsense.)

It seems to me that Hebrew and Greek were the common languages in Judea at the time. Aramaic was mostly a Syrian language.

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23-08-2015, 09:16 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(23-08-2015 09:05 PM)Free Wrote:  
(23-08-2015 08:58 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Oh...that's interesting! The author of Acts was obviously very aware of the language issue. That is why he had the holy spirit magically teach the apostles to speaking many different languages (or some such silly nonsense.)

It seems to me that Hebrew and Greek were the common languages in Judea at the time. Aramaic was mostly a Syrian language.

Oh ok, I didn't know that. I am going to get around to discussing your previous post, btw, I'm just a bit short on time at present.
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