Who was Saint Paul?
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16-08-2015, 01:07 AM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(16-08-2015 12:55 AM)Alla Wrote:  Mark Fulton:
Paul merely replaced Yahweh with Christ, to fit with his own manufactured theology.
Alla:
Jesus said to Jews: before Abraham was I AM.
I AM is God Yahweh.
..........
Mark Fulton:
One of Paul’s main themes differentiating his theology from that of the Jews was that Gentiles could be God’s special people too. Paul wrote,

“Well, we are those people; whether we were Jews or pagans we are the ones he has called. That is exactly what God says in Hosea: ‘I shall say to a people that was not mine, ‘you are my people,’ and to a nation I never loved ‘I love you’” (Rom. 9:24, NJB.)

However a reading of chapters one and two of Hosea reveals that “God” was not referring to Gentiles, but Jews whom he was accepting back under his wing after a misdemeanor. Paul changed the meaning of Scripture to sell his own story to Gentiles living in Rome.
Alla:
Paul did not teach that Gentiles are God's special people. He was teaching that Gentiles become grafted branch of olive tree( house of Israel). Every Gentile who makes a covenant with God, becomes part of God's people - house of Israel.
Jews who reject God are not God's people any more and Gentiles who do not accept God are not God's people.
But Jews who accept God back and Gentiles who accept God become God's covenant people.
They are all Israelites - Jews(natural branch of olive tree) and non-Jews(grafted branch of olive tree).

You're playing with words. Paul was trying to downplay the exclusivity of Jews. There's no doubt about that.
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16-08-2015, 01:12 AM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(16-08-2015 12:23 AM)Alla Wrote:  I agree that this is stupid.
Gospel of Jesus Christ doesn't teach this.

You and your church prophets are only some of the latest additions to a long line of deluded fanatics...

“Getting back to Jesus”

Over the centuries, people disillusioned with various Christian Churches have branched off to form their own, so there are now over 34,000 Christian denominations in the world. Each “new” Church usually has spokesmen who claim that they want to “return” to the basics of the Gospels, to Jesus’ “original message.” An informed reader may cringe a little on hearing such talk, for many reasons.

Jesus’ divinity, his miracles and his injunctions are obviously fabricated. Dogma based on falsehood has no value.

It can be argued that Jesus’ teachings are not particularly meritorious, interesting or innovative. Many of Jesus’ injunctions were probably invented to suppress critical thought, stifle people’s individuality, and to discourage crowds from complaining.

Jesus’ fans all cherry pick and reinterpret what Jesus allegedly said, and that is not intellectually honest.

There is little point turning to Jesus. There are far better places to find true “spirituality,” such as with loved ones, friends, or maybe in a stranger’s smile, a child’s hug, a neighbor’s thank you, or the satisfaction of a job well done. It comes with a healthy self - esteem, and most often as a consequence of the love and respect we get from each other, not from convoluted interpretations of flawed ancient ramblings.
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16-08-2015, 01:17 AM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
Hey Mark, do you ever get the feeling that you are trying to explain to a cat how to fix an airplane?

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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16-08-2015, 01:26 AM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(16-08-2015 01:17 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  Hey Mark, do you ever get the feeling that you are trying to explain to a cat how to fix an airplane?

Consider every post that Alla has ever written. She quite clearly has no knowledge of the social and political atmosphere in which the characters, real or fictional, in the Bible lived, or why the Bible was written.

All she's got is the Bible itself, the book of Mormon, and the spiel which she's been told by elders in a church. There is no, and I really mean no, understanding of the real history.

So yes, discussing stuff with Alla it is like trying to teach advanced calculus to a kindergarten child, or, as you say, trying to explain to a cat how to fix an aeroplane.
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16-08-2015, 01:30 AM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
I stopped trusting Alla.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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16-08-2015, 01:34 AM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(16-08-2015 01:30 AM)Banjo Wrote:  I stopped trusting Alla.

I assume you mean her integrity?

When and why?
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16-08-2015, 01:39 AM (This post was last modified: 16-08-2015 01:47 AM by Alla.)
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
Mark Fulton:
MF said that Paul promised a free pass to salvation.
Alla:
No, he didn't . Faith in Christ is big work. Sometimes it is not very easy work."
Mark Fulton:
Wrong again Alla. You don't understand Paul...
Paul claimed:

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified” (Gal. 2; 16, KJV) and[/quote]
Alla:
Paul said here that man is not justified by works of the law but by the faith.
Why can't man be justified by the works of the law?
if we break at least one law we broke all law.
How?
We have to do only one sin to become dead(we have stain). It is spiritual death or hell.
We can not reverse it. It DOESN'T MATTER what we do after. It doesn't matter how many good works we do after, we are still spiritually dead(we can not remove the stain). Hell is our destiny.
This what Paul was saying.
Then he said that by faith in Christ we justified.
How?
Only if we have faith in Christ we can be cleansed(stains can be removed) from any sin by His blood.
But what is faith in Christ? Why faith?
Christ and Paul were teaching - faith in Christ means to follow Christ.
Faith in Christ = to follow Christ = to do what Christ did(works)
Paul was teaching not to sin(keep the commandments) . Christ was teaching not to sin.
.....
Mark Fulton:
Paul said:“Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law” (Gal. 3:13, KJV)
Alla:
Yes, if Christ did not atone for us law would not save us, good works would not save us. We( with our good works) can not clean the stain even of one sin(and we commit more than one).
So, Paul did not say that we don't have to do good works(follow Christ=have faith in Christ), but Paul, said that only works will not help us without Christ's Atonement.

Analogy: I owe you $1,000,000. I don't have this money. No matter how hard I try I can return you only tiny amount. I can not remove this debt from me. Justice is jail for me.
But then Jesus(My Big Brother) comes to me and says: Alla, follow Me(have faith in Me) and I will pay your debt.
So, my works can not remove my debt, but Jesus can do it. Only He makes a condition: Follow Me.
How?
Jesus: DO what I DO. Keep my commandments like I kept my Father's commandments.
This is FAITH in Christ.
This is what Paul taught. I can not pay my debt no matter how hard I try( I can not be justified), but if I follow Jesus by keeping His commandments(good works)
I will be justified. Debt will be removed.
Dead faith(no good works) will not save me.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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16-08-2015, 01:50 AM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(16-08-2015 01:39 AM)Alla Wrote:  Mark Fulton:
MF said that Paul promised a free pass to salvation.
Alla:
No, he didn't . Faith in Christ is big work. Sometimes it is not very easy work."
Mark Fulton:
Wrong again Alla. You don't understand Paul...
Paul claimed:

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified” (Gal. 2; 16, KJV) and
Alla:
Paul said here that man is not justified by works of the law but by the faith.
Why can't man be justified by the works of the law?
if we break at least one law we broke all law.
How?
We have to do only one sin to become dead(we have stain). It is spiritual death or hell.
We can not reverse it. It DOESN'T MATTER what we do after. It doesn't matter how many good works we do after, we are still spiritually dead(we can not remove the stain). Hell is our destiny.
This what Paul was saying.
Then he said that by faith in Christ we justified.
How?
Only if we have faith in Christ we can be cleansed(stains can be removed) from any sin by His blood.
But what is faith in Christ? Why faith?
Christ and Paul were teaching - faith in Christ means to follow Christ.
Faith in Christ = to follow Christ = to do what Christ did(works)
Paul was teaching not to sin(keep the commandments) . Christ was teaching not to sin.
.....
Mark Fulton:
Paul said:“Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law” (Gal. 3:13, KJV)
Alla:
Yes, if Christ did not atone for us law would not save us, good works would not save us. We( with our good works) can not clean the stain even of one sin(and we commit more than one).
So, Paul did not say that we don't have to do good works(follow Christ=have faith in Christ), but Paul, said that only works will not help us without Christ's Atonement.

Analogy: I owe you $1,000,000. I don't have this money. No matter how hard I try I can return you only tiny amount. I can not remove this debt from me. Justice is jail for me.
But then Jesus(My Big Brother) comes to me and says: Alla, follow Me(have faith in Me) and I will pay your debt.
So, my works can not remove my debt, but Jesus can do it. Only He makes a condition: Follow Me.
How?
Jesus: DO what I DO. Keep my commandments like I kept my Father's commandments.
This is FAITH in Christ.
This is what Paul taught. I can not pay my debt no matter how hard I try( I can not be justified), but if I follow Jesus by keeping His commandments(good works)
I will be justified. Debt will be removed.
Dead faith - no good works will not save me.
[/quote]




Hey Alla, I hear you.

You haven't told me about the weather over there yet.

Are you warm? Cold?

Is the sun shining? Can you feel the breeze? Hear the birds?
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16-08-2015, 01:50 AM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(16-08-2015 01:34 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(16-08-2015 01:30 AM)Banjo Wrote:  I stopped trusting Alla.

I assume you mean her integrity?

When and why?

This morning. It seems too unreal. I suspect a man playing a woman and trolling us to see how far he/she can lead us around by the collar.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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16-08-2015, 01:53 AM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(16-08-2015 01:50 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(16-08-2015 01:34 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  I assume you mean her integrity?

When and why?

This morning. It seems too unreal. I suspect a man playing a woman and trolling us to see how far he/she can lead us around by the collar.

Ok. Interesting.

He's got a a serious mental problem if that's true.
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