Who was Saint Paul?
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16-08-2015, 05:02 PM (This post was last modified: 16-08-2015 05:06 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(16-08-2015 04:43 PM)Free Wrote:  
(16-08-2015 02:39 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Are you saying that you think all Jews at the time of Jesus and Paul were polytheists?

They have been polytheists since the origin of their religion, although none would admit it.

Even modern Jews absolutely HATE the 1st line of Genesis in Gen 1.1, because they all know that it literally says "the gods" and not "God."

They don't know what to do about it, and hate to discuss it.

I agree that they were originally polytheists.

My understanding is that in the decades before the Babylonian exile, the official line became monotheistic, and they have been ever since.

This is how I put it in my book..

"Then came a catastrophe. Assyrians conquered the people in the Northern kingdom in c. 720 BCE, and many were taken into exile. The prophets Isaiah, Amos and Hosea arose during the upheaval. All three cried for devotion to Yahweh and disparaged the worship of other gods. Interestingly, in each of the writings, Yahweh had a personality created in the author’s own image. Isaiah, a member of a royal family, saw Yahweh as a king. Amos, a shepherd, described Yahweh’s empathy with the poor, and Hosea, who had marriage problems, portrayed Yahweh as a husband who had a yearning tenderness for his wife (Israel.) Their writings did nothing to save the northern tribes, but their words lived on in Hebrew scripture. The Assyrians exiled members of the upper classes, including many of the original Levite priests. These priests told the people in exile that the North had been unfaithful to God in the shift to the use of the Golden Bull symbol, and this was the reason the Assyrians had conquered them.

Thousands of people escaped the Assyrians and moved south, so Jerusalem grew in importance. It became the centre of a large, temple based economy. The Southern Kingdom of Judah remained free for another 120 odd years. The ten tribes from the North have come down in history as the “ten lost tribes of Israel.”

There were still plenty of popular cults with different gods in the grounds of the Temple in Jerusalem, and the early Jewish kings at this time were still polytheists.

In 640 BCE, King Josiah ruled Judea, although many Judeans were rural people without a strong allegiance to Jerusalem or their king. Josiah thought these disunited people were not likely to oppose an invading army. He wanted power centralized in Jerusalem, so he and his priests decided to rally the people around a belief in only one all-powerful god; Yahweh, the god of the armies, who was now to be worshipped in Jerusalem only. Two other centers of Yahweh worship, one in Beth-El, north of Jerusalem, and one, up in the far North at Dan, were shut down. The temple was purged of all other gods. Any mentions of them in scripture were later transformed into human characters, and often servants of Yahweh.

The unification under Yahweh was facilitated by the contents of an allegedly ancient manuscript found in the Temple. This was the book of Deuteronomy, which was presented under the guise of a composition dating from the time of Moses. In reality, it is now generally accepted that contemporary temple priests had composed it, so it was, in fact, a forgery.13 14 It emphasized the strict rejection of other gods, and promoted power in the Judean Levite priesthood. This publication was to become of prime importance in Jewish history.

The books of Joshua, Judges, Samuel and Kings were rewritten in accordance with the new theology."
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16-08-2015, 05:06 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(16-08-2015 04:10 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(16-08-2015 04:00 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Here is the passage. I'm not sure how you can say Paul thought there were many Gods. It seems to me he is just saying there are many false gods...and only one true god....
3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
But Paul doesn't say "there be false gods many, and false lords many"
There are gods many and lords many.
Psalm 82
1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among gods

there are gods in heaven according to Psalm 82

Paul implies that these other gods are false, because he writes

"But to us there is but one God,..."
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16-08-2015, 05:18 PM (This post was last modified: 16-08-2015 06:08 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(16-08-2015 03:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  Paul: faith and works.
Once a sinner is forever a sinner. One sin and I can not enter heaven. This is the law.
I may try to do many good works after(obey laws) but it is not going to help me.
My good works will not save me. They do not remove the stain of my very first sin.
This what Paul was teaching. And this is true principle of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

So, what should be done that a sinner can be saved from the sin/sins?

Paul said that it is by/trough faith in Christ.

Why? God Father can not let a sinner to enter heaven. If there are sinners in heaven it is not heaven any more.
So the only thing God father can do is to punish a sinner. Penalty for sin is death/hell.

But God Son- Jesus Christ can help us. He can pay for our sins and cleanse us with His blood. But there is a condition. Jesus: I can cleanse you with MY blood only if you make a covenant with Me. My blood +covenant with Me will cleanse you from sins.
But in order to make a covenant with Christ some one has to have faith in Christ first.
If I do not believe in Christ I will not make this covenant.

No faith = no covenant = no cleansing from sin

But what is covenant? Covenant is a promise to keep God's commandments(good works)

How did Jesus took my sins upon Himself exactly? How did He pay for them?
It is another topic

All of this is nonsense made up by the over imaginative Paul.

You really need to realise this, and stop allowing the ramblings of this nasty little weasel of a man to control your thoughts.

And you still haven't told me about the weather over there. It's a beautiful sunny day here (Sunshine Coast, Australia) Big Grin
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16-08-2015, 06:59 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(16-08-2015 05:18 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  And you still haven't told me about the weather over there. It's a beautiful sunny day here (Sunshine Coast, Australia) Big Grin
It is hot. we have lots of fire. Air is filled with smoke.
I am glad you enjoy the weather in Australia.

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16-08-2015, 07:02 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(16-08-2015 05:06 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Paul implies that these other gods are false, because he writes
"But to us there is but one God,..."
There are lots of true gods(in infinite space) but for us(house of Israel) there is only one God. Because He is the only God we worship.


P.S.
LORD God = Yahweh or Jesus Christ or I AM
Lord GOD = Elohim is Yahweh's GOD and Father.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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16-08-2015, 07:06 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(16-08-2015 06:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(16-08-2015 05:18 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  And you still haven't told me about the weather over there. It's a beautiful sunny day here (Sunshine Coast, Australia) Big Grin
It is hot. we have lots of fire. Air is filled with smoke.
I am glad you enjoy the weather in Australia.

What part of the world are you in?
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16-08-2015, 07:11 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(16-08-2015 07:02 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(16-08-2015 05:06 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Paul implies that these other gods are false, because he writes
"But to us there is but one God,..."
There are lots of true gods(in infinite space) but for us(house of Israel) there is only one God. Because He is the only God we worship.


P.S.
LORD God = Yahweh or Jesus Christ or I AM
Lord GOD = Elohim is Yahweh's GOD and Father.

All gods are fictional products of controlling mens' imaginations.

I know that because

- I have a rational mind
- I have studied the history.

You have showed no evidence of rational thinking or of having studied the history.
That is why people here are annoyed by you.
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16-08-2015, 07:11 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(16-08-2015 07:06 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(16-08-2015 06:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  It is hot. we have lots of fire. Air is filled with smoke.
I am glad you enjoy the weather in Australia.

What part of the world are you in?

Idaho, USA

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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16-08-2015, 07:13 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(16-08-2015 07:11 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  All gods are fictional products of controlling mens' imaginations.
I understand. You know that I won't argue with you about this, don't you?
I only like to discuss the book.

English is my second language.
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16-08-2015, 07:13 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(16-08-2015 07:11 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  You have showed no evidence of rational thinking or of having studied the history.
That is why people here are annoyed by you.


The above is true. Plus I think Alla is a troll.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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