Who was Saint Paul?
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30-11-2012, 02:39 PM (This post was last modified: 30-11-2012 05:42 PM by Vosur.)
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(30-11-2012 02:36 PM)Free Wrote:  His entire video library on the subject is to one way or another discredit Christianity. That's his agenda.

Christianity already sux enough that we don't even need to be intellectually dishonest about it. The truth alone is enough for its destruction.
That's a valid point, but he doesn't, as far as I can see, use the "Christian vs Chrestian" issue to discredit the validity of Christianity.

(30-11-2012 02:33 PM)Free Wrote:  Not all of them, no. But I can bet you dollars to donuts that when he speaks about Suetonius he will be making an argument against the Christian belief that the part that says "at the instigation of Chrestus" his aim will be to dispute the Christian position that the word "Chrestus" rrefers to Jesus Christ.

Personally, I have no idea who the Chrestus is as mentioned by Suetonius. It could be Jesus, as it is mentioned during the supposed time of Jesus in the text. Or it could be some other crazy bastard trying to raise a little hell with the Romans.
No offense intended, but why are you making a half-assed criticism and accuse him of being intellectually dishonest for not mentioning and examining all of the evidence when you have yet to watch all material? You should then also check out the references to other sources in the description that contain more extensive information.

Wikipedia, which you seem to value as a source, confirms his analysis independently. (ex. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ )

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30-11-2012, 05:38 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(30-11-2012 02:33 PM)Free Wrote:  
(30-11-2012 02:23 PM)Vosur Wrote:  I'll re-watch the relevant parts and see if your criticism holds water. In the meantime, thanks for taking the time to respond. A few things have already bugged me when I compared what you wrote to what I remember from the videos. For example, you say that "He stays totally clear on Suetonius work where we have yet another Roman historian like Tacitus spelling the name of "Christians." when he actually talks about Suetonius in one of the videos I posted.

Just to make sure: Did you watch all of the videos that belong to the "Chrestus vs Christus" topic?
Not all of them, no. But I can bet you dollars to donuts that when he speaks about Suetonius he will be making an argument against the Christian belief that the part that says "at the instigation of Chrestus" his aim will be to dispute the Christian position that the word "Chrestus" rrefers to Jesus Christ.

Personally, I have no idea who the Chrestus is as mentioned by Suetonius. It could be Jesus, as it is mentioned during the supposed time of Jesus in the text. Or it could be some other crazy bastard trying to raise a little hell with the Romans.
herp derp

http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/...estos.html

chrestos
Definition
  1. fit, fit for use, useful
    1. virtuous, good
  2. manageable
    1. mild, pleasant (as opp. to harsh, hard sharp, bitter)
    2. of things: more pleasant, of people, kind, benevolent

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30-11-2012, 06:15 PM (This post was last modified: 30-11-2012 08:48 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(30-11-2012 10:58 AM)Free Wrote:  
(30-11-2012 09:18 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  LOL. There are many similarities to the Homeric poems in Mark's gospel. That is no "conspiracy" theory.
Of course everyone assumes they are "logical and reasonable", but when someone keeps pointing out they read things with
"exceptional clarity", (snort), one has to wonder.
The words "pompous ass" come to mind. Big Grin
Says the one who's signature says, "Insufferable know-it-all." Laughat

At least I admit it. Weeping

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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30-11-2012, 06:43 PM (This post was last modified: 30-11-2012 06:46 PM by Free.)
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
Quote:That's a valid point, but he doesn't, as far as I can see, use the "Christian vs Chrestian" issue to discredit the validity of Christianity.

Actually, yes he does. He was trying to demonstrate that there had been some tampering with some ancient texts so that the original word of Chrestian had been changed to Christian. He's trying to further his point that numerous other Christian and historical texts were altered in an effort to discredit any historicity to Yeshua.

I have reviewed several of his videos now and the theme is very obvious. He's merely rehashing the same tired old stories mythers have used for the past 10 years, and which have all already been discredited.

I have seen all this dozens of times, and none of it impresses me. There are too many unanswered questions, suppositions, logical fallacies, and unsupported assertions. The entire myther position is simply, for lack of a better phrase, fucking retarded and grossly insulting to human intellect.

It's a god damn belief system not unlike Christianity or Islam, and it makes me just as sick.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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30-11-2012, 07:05 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
Vosur, I want to thank you for introducing us to this excellent video series.

I have spent last night and this morning watching 1-15.

The four brief videos, 14A,B,C and D are extremely relevant to the discussion I've been having with Free about the identity of Paul's Christ.

Free, I INSIST you watch them.

I strongly encourage anyone who has an interest in this to view them too. Here is the link to 14A...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPhKmRmCSoE
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30-11-2012, 07:11 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(30-11-2012 06:43 PM)Free Wrote:  Actually, yes he does. He was trying to demonstrate that there had been some tampering with some ancient texts so that the original word of Chrestian had been changed to Christian. He's trying to further his point that numerous other Christian and historical texts were altered in an effort to discredit any historicity to Yeshua.
And I'm interested in the flaws in his reasoning. Your first critique is based on incomplete information, so that doesn't help me very much.

(30-11-2012 06:43 PM)Free Wrote:  I have reviewed several of his videos now and the theme is very obvious. He's merely rehashing the same tired old stories mythers have used for the past 10 years, and which have all already been discredited.

I have seen all this dozens of times, and none of it impresses me. There are too many unanswered questions, suppositions, logical fallacies, and unsupported assertions. The entire myther position is simply, for lack of a better phrase, fucking retarded and grossly insulting to human intellect.

It's a god damn belief system not unlike Christianity or Islam, and it makes me just as sick.
I was hoping for something more profound. I think you can imagine that I didn't mention the videos to hear you trash-talking them, saying that they are "fucking retarded and grossly insulting to human intellect" and that his position represents a "god damn belief system", especially since neither of these accusations appear to be very accurate. I did it because I was hoping for an opportunity to learn something new about the topic. Saying that there are too many unanswered questions, suppositions, logical fallacies and unsupported assertions without giving me any examples from the videos doesn't help me either. I'd prefer if you'd update your first critique instead of choosing this irrational and unprofessional approach of insulting the position. The choice is yours.

(30-11-2012 07:05 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Vosur, I want to thank you for introducing us to this excellent video series.

I have spent last night and this morning watching 1-15.

The four brief videos, 14A,B,C and D are extremely relevant to the discussion I've been having with Free about the identity of Paul's Christ.

Free, I INSIST you watch them.

I strongly encourage anyone who has an interest in this to view them too. Here is the link to 14A...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPhKmRmCSoE
You're welcome, Mark.

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30-11-2012, 07:34 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(30-11-2012 06:43 PM)Free Wrote:  
Quote:That's a valid point, but he doesn't, as far as I can see, use the "Christian vs Chrestian" issue to discredit the validity of Christianity.

Actually, yes he does. He was trying to demonstrate that there had been some tampering with some ancient texts so that the original word of Chrestian had been changed to Christian. He's trying to further his point that numerous other Christian and historical texts were altered in an effort to discredit any historicity to Yeshua.

I have reviewed several of his videos now and the theme is very obvious. He's merely rehashing the same tired old stories mythers have used for the past 10 years, and which have all already been discredited.

I have seen all this dozens of times, and none of it impresses me. There are too many unanswered questions, suppositions, logical fallacies, and unsupported assertions. The entire myther position is simply, for lack of a better phrase, fucking retarded and grossly insulting to human intellect.

It's a god damn belief system not unlike Christianity or Islam, and it makes me just as sick.

Any refutations or negations you'd like to put forward?

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30-11-2012, 08:06 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(30-11-2012 07:11 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(30-11-2012 06:43 PM)Free Wrote:  Actually, yes he does. He was trying to demonstrate that there had been some tampering with some ancient texts so that the original word of Chrestian had been changed to Christian. He's trying to further his point that numerous other Christian and historical texts were altered in an effort to discredit any historicity to Yeshua.
And I'm interested in the flaws in his reasoning. Your first critique is based on incomplete information, so that doesn't help me very much.

(30-11-2012 06:43 PM)Free Wrote:  I have reviewed several of his videos now and the theme is very obvious. He's merely rehashing the same tired old stories mythers have used for the past 10 years, and which have all already been discredited.

I have seen all this dozens of times, and none of it impresses me. There are too many unanswered questions, suppositions, logical fallacies, and unsupported assertions. The entire myther position is simply, for lack of a better phrase, fucking retarded and grossly insulting to human intellect.

It's a god damn belief system not unlike Christianity or Islam, and it makes me just as sick.
I was hoping for something more profound. I think you can imagine that I didn't mention the videos to hear you trash-talking them, saying that they are "fucking retarded and grossly insulting to human intellect" and that his position represents a "god damn belief system", especially since neither of these accusations appear to be very accurate. I did it because I was hoping for an opportunity to learn something new about the topic. Saying that there are too many unanswered questions, suppositions, logical fallacies and unsupported assertions without giving me any examples from the videos doesn't help me either. I'd prefer if you'd update your first critique instead of choosing this irrational and unprofessional approach of insulting the position. The choice is yours.

(30-11-2012 07:05 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Vosur, I want to thank you for introducing us to this excellent video series.

I have spent last night and this morning watching 1-15.

The four brief videos, 14A,B,C and D are extremely relevant to the discussion I've been having with Free about the identity of Paul's Christ.

Free, I INSIST you watch them.

I strongly encourage anyone who has an interest in this to view them too. Here is the link to 14A...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPhKmRmCSoE
You're welcome, Mark.



All I'm really trying to tell you is that I find the myther position excruciatingly boring. Those videos make a nice neat story, but they are not unlike dozens of others I have reviewed over the years. They have excellent entertainment value for the lay person, but they could put me to sleep real quick.

I just don't have enough of an attention span to be able to sit through the 33 videos and endure. So pick out some subject from those videos that you think is worth talking about and as long as isn't 10 bloody videos long I will go check it out.

But watching 33 videos on a bullshit subject just isn't going to happen.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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30-11-2012, 08:27 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
Re...

"And as far as Paul "believing" that Jesus "spoke" to him, it wouldn't
matter in the slightest if it was some kind of revelation or an audible
sound."

Huh!!!! We are talking about the founder of Christian theology. There are 2 billion Christians out there who believe Paul's bullshit and "Jesus.'"

If Paul was making it all up (which is my impression) or hallucinating, I think it's rather important those 2 billion people wake up to the fact, don't you?

There is no religion higher than truth.
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30-11-2012, 08:32 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
Re...

In regards to his revelations, he claims they came directly from Jesus Christ:

Quote:Quote:Gal_1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
WRONG!!!

Read your own quote. Not "from" Jesus Christ, but "of" Jesus Christ. Paul invented his own gospel ABOUT Christ, which was his interpretation of scripture; he never claimed to have been inspired BY Christ.
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