Who was Saint Paul?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Votes - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
06-07-2016, 06:46 AM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
Who was St. Paul?

The twin brother of Minneapolis.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

Alouette, je te plumerai.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Old Man Marsh's post
03-08-2016, 10:47 AM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
We have almost nothing to go on concerning Paul's identity save the seven genuine epistles. For a few years, I've been reading works by Hermann Detering and Robert M Price in an effort to tie together the clearly Gnostic threads contained in all sorts of sources such as [certain of] the Nag Hammadi codices, St John's Gospel and, of course, the real Pauline epistles and, of course, what little is demonstrably true of Simon. Some, like Raphael Lataster and David Fitzgerald, do not hesitate to portray 1st century "Christianity" as some sort of evolutionary outcropping of Gnosticism. Others - I don't recall Carrier mentioning this at all - avoid this meme or are equivocal when talking or writing about Christianity's origins.

Mark. Any thoughts, either about the Gnostic theme or Deterring's and Price's theses about Paul's identity? I'm a 'newbie' and have read most but not all of your posts.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-08-2016, 12:17 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
I heard he was a homosexual
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-08-2016, 01:14 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(18-10-2012 06:23 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Paul (aka Saul) of Tarsus was probably the founding figure of what became Christianity. He was an enthusiastic evangelist and, by the standards of the time, a prolific author. His theology is more important than that purportedly taught by Jesus. Without his influence it is probable that Christianity, as we know it, would not exist today. Copies of many of Paul’s letters to various communities have survived and now form roughly one quarter of the New Testament.

Today’s reader can open any one of thousands of books in a Christian bookstore coaching people how to live happy, meaningful, or successful Christian lives. These books are loaded with quotes from Paul used to back up a multitude of agendas and opinions. All these authors assume Paul had an unquestionable authority, yet nearly none of them objectively assess who he was, his relationship with the followers of Yeshua (Jesus), what he was trying to achieve, or the evidence for the truth of his teachings.

I don't like Paul or his messages. It took me many months of reading to understand who he was and why he wrote what he did. I'd like to share my conclusions with anyone interested, and I am very keen to hear other opinions. My conclusions question the very essence of Christianity, so I think they are relevant to today's world.

I think Paul was
-a Roman government agent employed to promote propaganda and subdue Jewish messianic aspirations
-a liar
-a two faced hypocrite
-a misogynist
-a homophobe
-an over-imaginative scheemer
-someone who never met Yeshua, and who undermined the beliefs of his original followers
-someone who was mildly mentally unwell

Any comments or questions to get the ball rolling will be appreciated.
I knew a gay group of the new age variety who were sure that Paul was a closet gay. He murmured about his affliction never saying exactly what it was, and they decided it was that he was gay! Many gays before 'coming out' lambaste gays!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-08-2016, 12:05 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
I think Hermann Detering's 'Fabricated Paul' hypothesis is by many miles the most plausible of those that I've read. Both Detering and Robert M Price regard the Pauline epistles as second century CE reworkings of first century Simonian originals, an undertaking that is most likely to have involved the "early church father" most in touch with the [Gnostic, IMHO] theology of proto-Christian believers, Marcion. Apocalypticist? If Detering and Price are correct, we don't know clearly enough what the real author of the epistles originally wrote to make such a claim.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-08-2016, 12:30 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
I've always been most impressed by the argument that Justin Martyr, writing in the 160's AD to Emperor Antonius Pius ( First Apologia ) never heard of anyone named "Paul." He did know of Marcion, however, as a dangerous heretic.

Other church writers (Irenaeus and Tertullian) tell us that Marcion produced a canon of writings which included a lot of paul shit and it is still easy to see the anti-jewish slant of these supposed early writings of paul.

It is simply inconceivable that Justin ( a gentile living in Rome ) could not have know the paul story of him bringing jesusism to the gentiles over a century earlier unless that particular bullshit story had not been written at the time Justin was writing.

But don't take my word for it. Go to Peter Kirby's Early Christian Writings page and dig up the Justin section. It's all there.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Minimalist's post
09-08-2016, 05:13 PM (This post was last modified: 09-08-2016 05:18 PM by Born Again Pagan.)
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
There was a small community where the Mississippi River was joined by the Minnesota River. At that point an old Frenchman with a withered face had a trading post. Because of his face they called him Pig's Eye and the community that built up around it was called Pig's Eye also. Then Father Hennepin came around and decided to build a Catholic Cathedral there and refused to do so in a town called Pig's Eye, so he had it renamed ST Paul, and to this very day it is still the capitol of Minnesota. That is the true story of ST Paul in case any one wonders.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-08-2016, 07:55 PM (This post was last modified: 09-08-2016 07:59 PM by GoingUp.)
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(09-08-2016 12:30 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  It is simply inconceivable that Justin ( a gentile living in Rome ) could not have know the paul story of him bringing jesusism to the gentiles over a century earlier unless that particular bullshit story had not been written at the time Justin was writing.

"Completely inconceivable" is it? Utterly blows your mind? Somehow because Justin doesn't mention Paul, well golly gee now ... Paul never existed?

Should we chalk that up with your Jesus never existed, and your Nazareth never existed?

What next? Rome never existed?

Laugh out loadLaugh out load

Let's inform the readers with a better approximation of the truth than your B.S..

1Clement - Dated C.E. 93:

1Clem 5:5 - 5:6

By reason of jealousy and strife Paul by his example pointed out the prize of patient endurance. After that he had been seven times in bonds, had been driven into exile, had been stoned, had preached in the East and in the West, he won the noble renown which was the reward of his faith, having taught righteousness unto the whole world and having reached the farthest bounds of the West; and when he had borne his testimony before the rulers, so he departed from the world and went unto the holy place, having been found a notable pattern of patient endurance.

1Clem 47:1 - 47:4:

Take up the epistle of the blessed Paul the Apostle. What wrote he first unto you in the beginning of the Gospel? Of a truth he charged you in the Spirit concerning himself and Cephas and Apollos, because that even then ye had made parties. Yet that making of parties brought less sin upon you; for ye were partisans of Apostles that were highly reputed, and of a man approved in their sight.

So what now? Oh yes ... let me guess ... hmmm ... oh! I got it!

Clement never existed, right?

Laugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out load
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-08-2016, 08:04 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
Recycled and later forgeries...although I'm sure a fucktard like you can't stand hearing that.

Keep on believing your bullshit, boy. It just makes you look stupid(er).

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Minimalist's post
09-08-2016, 08:16 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(09-08-2016 07:55 PM)GoingUp Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 12:30 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  It is simply inconceivable that Justin ( a gentile living in Rome ) could not have know the paul story of him bringing jesusism to the gentiles over a century earlier unless that particular bullshit story had not been written at the time Justin was writing.

"Completely inconceivable" is it? Utterly blows your mind? Somehow because Justin doesn't mention Paul, well golly gee now ... Paul never existed?

Should we chalk that up with your Jesus never existed, and your Nazareth never existed?

What next? Rome never existed?

Laugh out loadLaugh out load

Let's inform the readers with a better approximation of the truth than your B.S..

1Clement - Dated C.E. 93:

1Clem 5:5 - 5:6

By reason of jealousy and strife Paul by his example pointed out the prize of patient endurance. After that he had been seven times in bonds, had been driven into exile, had been stoned, had preached in the East and in the West, he won the noble renown which was the reward of his faith, having taught righteousness unto the whole world and having reached the farthest bounds of the West; and when he had borne his testimony before the rulers, so he departed from the world and went unto the holy place, having been found a notable pattern of patient endurance.

1Clem 47:1 - 47:4:

Take up the epistle of the blessed Paul the Apostle. What wrote he first unto you in the beginning of the Gospel? Of a truth he charged you in the Spirit concerning himself and Cephas and Apollos, because that even then ye had made parties. Yet that making of parties brought less sin upon you; for ye were partisans of Apostles that were highly reputed, and of a man approved in their sight.

So what now? Oh yes ... let me guess ... hmmm ... oh! I got it!

Clement never existed, right?

Laugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out load

NOTE: Every time you attempt to use the bible as truth, I think "theologian" and not "historian".

You claim to be an historian, yet most historians are sceptical until they get direct evidence. Such as Caracalla having his brother removed from statues and shrines. You can see the sites.

You are completely unlike this. And then you do the classic twist and claim non belief whilst pushing belief.

I thought you were Q. But he was never so sly.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: