Who was Saint Paul?
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10-08-2016, 10:31 AM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
I dont mean to be rude but this is our turf so its only natural you are going to encounter mythicists and losing your cool even if in the face of provocation is not going to help get your point across... Just sayin Popcorn
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10-08-2016, 10:47 AM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(10-08-2016 10:31 AM)adey67 Wrote:  I dont mean to be rude but this is our turf so its only natural you are going to encounter mythicists and losing your cool even if in the face of provocation is not going to help get your point across... Just sayin Popcorn

I am neither a theist nor an atheist. I am a human secularist.

I can appreciate what you are saying, however "losing my cool" with Mythicists is actually a very harsh refutation of the stupidity of their arguments, and it is necessary to completely demean them in the view of those readers who may actually submit to their bullshit because they don't know any better.

The Mysticism agenda has absolutely nothing to do with history, but rather it attempts to bury history for the simple reason that they absolutely hate Christianity to the point of being completely irrational, and they don't seem to care about how stupid they make themselves out to be.

Like I said before, their agenda has nothing to do with history or any approximation of the truth regarding history, for the Mythicist it is "history be damned, at all costs."

I view them as extremists in the exact same way atheists view Christian fundamentalists. I see absolutely no distinction. Both are irrational, unreasonable, denialists, and will hang on to their beliefs come hell or high water.
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10-08-2016, 10:58 AM (This post was last modified: 10-08-2016 11:07 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(10-08-2016 10:47 AM)GoingUp Wrote:  The Mysticism agenda has absolutely nothing to do with history, but rather it attempts to bury history for the simple reason that they absolutely hate Christianity to the point of being completely irrational, and they don't seem to care about how stupid they make themselves out to be.

Like I said before, their agenda has nothing to do with history or any approximation of the truth regarding history, for the Mythicist it is "history be damned, at all costs."

I view them as extremists in the exact same way atheists view Christian fundamentalists. I see absolutely no distinction. Both are irrational, unreasonable, denialists, and will hang on to their beliefs come hell or high water.

There is no "Mysticism agenda", (well maybe there is but it's irrelevant).
There is also no mythicism agenda. I certainly don't hate Christianity. They pay me handsomely some weeks for my musical talent. Your have no evidence for this agenda or your making up the "hate" bullshit.
Your trying to marginalize people is totally unsuccessful. Carrier and Price, (whom you have never effectively EVEN ONCE addressed specifically, with respect to individual arguments, either historical or literary) are
a. more educated then you are, and
b. not extremists.

Too bad. Nice try. You seem to be very insecure about the subject, and are very dogmatic, and allow that only YOUR opinion on a subject is the right one. Why is that ? Is that what you learned ? Maybe that's why you never went very far in History. Most really good Historians can see the value in others opinions.

Fail

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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10-08-2016, 11:01 AM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(10-08-2016 10:47 AM)GoingUp Wrote:  
(10-08-2016 10:31 AM)adey67 Wrote:  I dont mean to be rude but this is our turf so its only natural you are going to encounter mythicists and losing your cool even if in the face of provocation is not going to help get your point across... Just sayin Popcorn

I am neither a theist nor an atheist. I am a human secularist.

I can appreciate what you are saying, however "losing my cool" with Mythicists is actually a very harsh refutation of the stupidity of their arguments, and it is necessary to completely demean them in the view of those readers who may actually submit to their bullshit because they don't know any better.

The Mysticism agenda has absolutely nothing to do with history, but rather it attempts to bury history for the simple reason that they absolutely hate Christianity to the point of being completely irrational, and they don't seem to care about how stupid they make themselves out to be.

Like I said before, their agenda has nothing to do with history or any approximation of the truth regarding history, for the Mythicist it is "history be damned, at all costs."

I view them as extremists in the exact same way atheists view Christian fundamentalists. I see absolutely no distinction. Both are irrational, unreasonable, denialists, and will hang on to their beliefs come hell or high water.

I don't know enough to make any comments regarding mythicism one way or another clearly you are very well educated what with speaking Greek etc but have you considered that they may just not find your arguments compelling ? Further more have you considered the"harsh refutation"may be counter productive and push the undecided towards the mythicist position ?
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10-08-2016, 11:16 AM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(10-08-2016 10:58 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(10-08-2016 10:47 AM)GoingUp Wrote:  The Mysticism agenda has absolutely nothing to do with history, but rather it attempts to bury history for the simple reason that they absolutely hate Christianity to the point of being completely irrational, and they don't seem to care about how stupid they make themselves out to be.

Like I said before, their agenda has nothing to do with history or any approximation of the truth regarding history, for the Mythicist it is "history be damned, at all costs."

I view them as extremists in the exact same way atheists view Christian fundamentalists. I see absolutely no distinction. Both are irrational, unreasonable, denialists, and will hang on to their beliefs come hell or high water.
There is also no mythicism agenda. I certainly don't hate Christianity. They pay me handsomely some weeks for my musical talent. Your have no evidence for this agenda or your making up the "hate" bullshit.

Bull ... fucking ... shit.

YOU are evidence for this agenda. Your intentional denial of evidence as actually being evidence is evidence of your agenda.

Your weak ass and/or arguments from silence are desperate, and are evidence of your agenda.

Your stupid fucking unevidenced Christian conspiracy theories are evidence of your agenda.

Your entire point of being a Mythicist to undermine the Christian religion, and if that means doing everything you can possibly do to bury actual history, then YOU will actually do it.

If that is not "hatred" of something, I don't know what the fuck is.

Quote:Your trying to marginalize people is totally unsuccessful. Carrier and Price, (whom you have never effectively EVEN ONCE addressed specifically, with respect to individual arguments, either historical or literary) are
a. more educated then you are, and
b. not extremists.

And what chair does Carrier currently hold? Absolutely none. He's not even employed because no one will touch him due to his "extremist views." He does not even teach at a high school, let alone a university. Despite that, I respect him for his education, although his mythicist views greatly damage his credibility not only with me, but with everybody that matters in the field of history. I suspect that Carrier will mature and grow out of his Mythicist views as he continues to further educate himself. In fact, I believe this to be a foregone conclusion.

Price is a fellow of the Jesus Seminar, a group of 150 writers and scholars who study the historicity of Jesus, the organizer of a Web community for those interested in the history of Christianity, and sits on the advisory board of the Secular Student Alliance. He is a religious skeptic, especially of orthodox Christian beliefs, occasionally describing himself as a Christian atheist. Although his arguments do use some of the Mythicist positions, his actual position on Jesus is not that he didn't exist, but rather he doesn't view the evidence as being good enough to confirm existence.
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10-08-2016, 11:39 AM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(10-08-2016 11:16 AM)GoingUp Wrote:  
(10-08-2016 10:58 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  There is also no mythicism agenda. I certainly don't hate Christianity. They pay me handsomely some weeks for my musical talent. Your have no evidence for this agenda or your making up the "hate" bullshit.

Bull ... fucking ... shit.

YOU are evidence for this agenda. Your intentional denial of evidence as actually being evidence is evidence of your agenda.

Your weak ass and/or arguments from silence are desperate, and are evidence of your agenda.

Your stupid fucking unevidenced Christian conspiracy theories are evidence of your agenda.

Your entire point of being a Mythicist to undermine the Christian religion, and if that means doing everything you can possibly do to bury actual history, then YOU will actually do it.

If that is not "hatred" of something, I don't know what the fuck is.

Quote:Your trying to marginalize people is totally unsuccessful. Carrier and Price, (whom you have never effectively EVEN ONCE addressed specifically, with respect to individual arguments, either historical or literary) are
a. more educated then you are, and
b. not extremists.

And what chair does Carrier currently hold? Absolutely none. He's not even employed because no one will touch him due to his "extremist views." He does not even teach at a high school, let alone a university. Despite that, I respect him for his education, although his mythicist views greatly damage his credibility not only with me, but with everybody that matters in the field of history. I suspect that Carrier will mature and grow out of his Mythicist views as he continues to further educate himself. In fact, I believe this to be a foregone conclusion.

Price is a fellow of the Jesus Seminar, a group of 150 writers and scholars who study the historicity of Jesus, the organizer of a Web community for those interested in the history of Christianity, and sits on the advisory board of the Secular Student Alliance. He is a religious skeptic, especially of orthodox Christian beliefs, occasionally describing himself as a Christian atheist. Although his arguments do use some of the Mythicist positions, his actual position on Jesus is not that he didn't exist, but rather he doesn't view the evidence as being good enough to confirm existence.

Yabut what chair do you hold ? I'm sorry but I think you are doing harm to your cause by the way you are conducting yourself on here. Clearly you are passionate about what you believe but trying to browbeat these guys isn't gonna work in a million years.
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10-08-2016, 11:55 AM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(10-08-2016 11:39 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(10-08-2016 11:16 AM)GoingUp Wrote:  Bull ... fucking ... shit.

YOU are evidence for this agenda. Your intentional denial of evidence as actually being evidence is evidence of your agenda.

Your weak ass and/or arguments from silence are desperate, and are evidence of your agenda.

Your stupid fucking unevidenced Christian conspiracy theories are evidence of your agenda.

Your entire point of being a Mythicist to undermine the Christian religion, and if that means doing everything you can possibly do to bury actual history, then YOU will actually do it.

If that is not "hatred" of something, I don't know what the fuck is.


And what chair does Carrier currently hold? Absolutely none. He's not even employed because no one will touch him due to his "extremist views." He does not even teach at a high school, let alone a university. Despite that, I respect him for his education, although his mythicist views greatly damage his credibility not only with me, but with everybody that matters in the field of history. I suspect that Carrier will mature and grow out of his Mythicist views as he continues to further educate himself. In fact, I believe this to be a foregone conclusion.

Price is a fellow of the Jesus Seminar, a group of 150 writers and scholars who study the historicity of Jesus, the organizer of a Web community for those interested in the history of Christianity, and sits on the advisory board of the Secular Student Alliance. He is a religious skeptic, especially of orthodox Christian beliefs, occasionally describing himself as a Christian atheist. Although his arguments do use some of the Mythicist positions, his actual position on Jesus is not that he didn't exist, but rather he doesn't view the evidence as being good enough to confirm existence.

Yabut what chair do you hold ? I'm sorry but I think you are doing harm to your cause by the way you are conducting yourself on here. Clearly you are passionate about what you believe but trying to browbeat these guys isn't gonna work in a million years.

I am not a PHd. I am M.A..

However, I am at least employed at a university in the history department. It's not full time, and likely never will be unless I go back to uni for a couple more years. But the truth is, is it worth it? Not really.

The truth is that here in Canada a high school teacher is paid more than a university professor of history. Not a word of lie.
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10-08-2016, 12:14 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(10-08-2016 11:55 AM)GoingUp Wrote:  
(10-08-2016 11:39 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Yabut what chair do you hold ? I'm sorry but I think you are doing harm to your cause by the way you are conducting yourself on here. Clearly you are passionate about what you believe but trying to browbeat these guys isn't gonna work in a million years.

I am not a PHd. I am M.A..

However, I am at least employed at a university in the history department. It's not full time, and likely never will be unless I go back to uni for a couple more years. But the truth is, is it worth it? Not really.

The truth is that here in Canada a high school teacher is paid more than a university professor of history. Not a word of lie.

That does sound kinda sucky but given the attitude of high school students perhaps its in Liu of danger money lol, I appreciate you talking to me man I still haven't got a clue regarding mythicism and I respect your passion but hope you will at least consider engaging my compatriots in a less inflammatory manner as I know you would get a far better reaction from them. All the best and kind regards Adey.
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10-08-2016, 03:41 PM
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
Quote:"An argument from silence may apply to a document only if the author was expected to have the information, was intending to give a complete account of the situation, and the item was important enough and interesting enough to deserve to be mentioned at the time.


Hey, fuckface

You trying to tell me that "paul" was so unimportant that Justin was justified in not mentioning him. Do you even listen to yourself? You sound like a complete horses' ass.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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10-08-2016, 03:55 PM (This post was last modified: 10-08-2016 07:55 PM by GoingUp.)
RE: Who was Saint Paul?
(10-08-2016 03:41 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  
Quote:"An argument from silence may apply to a document only if the author was expected to have the information, was intending to give a complete account of the situation, and the item was important enough and interesting enough to deserve to be mentioned at the time.


Hey, fuckface

You trying to tell me that "paul" was so unimportant that Justin was justified in not mentioning him. Do you even listen to yourself? You sound like a complete horses' ass.

Laugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out load

See, this is what makes me laugh about stupid fucks like you. No, I am NOT "trying to tell you that "Paul" was so unimportant that Justin was justified in not mentioning him."

My previous post is so crystal clear as to what I am saying that for you to misinterpret it is, by no means, any kind of a mystery whatsoever. Therefore, if you want to read it again, read ... it ... a ... bit ... more ... slowly so that maybe you can actually grasp the context.

I'll even help you out a bit. I basically said:

"You have not shown where and why the author had opportunity and need to mention (or quote) Paul".

And since you didn't produce any evidence as to where Justin should have or needed to mention or quote Paul, your argument becomes fallacious ...

"for if the fact (of mentioning or quoting Paul) did not seem important enough to an author it would have been excluded."

So it was not that Paul himself was so unimportant that Justin was justified in not mentioning him, as you assert, but rather that mentioning or quoting Paul was not important, not required, nor would it serve any relevant purpose in the context of any of the works attributed to Justin Martyr..

It's not much fucking wonder why people such as you can't understand history, since you can't even understand a small paragraph on a forum post.

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