Who will rid me of this turbulent priest? (want to help in a debate?)
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19-07-2012, 03:58 AM
Who will rid me of this turbulent priest? (want to help in a debate?)
Hello all,

I'm debating a
Catholic at the moment, a Fr. Longenecker, on his blog Standing on My Head.

He has posted an
article which I felt I ought to address, in which he argues that the gospels
are historically reliable and trustworthy.


Would anyone like to
join in the debate?

It's at
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/standingonm...rical.html


Thanks!
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19-07-2012, 05:11 AM (This post was last modified: 19-07-2012 06:52 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Who will rid me of this turbulent priest? (want to help in a debate?)
(19-07-2012 03:58 AM)Korou Wrote:  Hello all,

I'm debating a
Catholic at the moment, a Fr. Longenecker, on his blog Standing on My Head.

He has posted an
article which I felt I ought to address, in which he argues that the gospels
are historically reliable and trustworthy.


Would anyone like to
join in the debate?

It's at
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/standingonm...rical.html


Thanks!
I'll be more than happy to. Tongue Do you want me to post here or over there ?

Edit.
I read his "historical" bullshit, and he is no scholar. In fact he is laughable. He contradicts himself many times in the analysis of what historians do, (as obviously he doens't know how they work), and also is way off in what he keeps asserting "most scholars this", and "most scholars that". If you get to debating, just ask him to prove his assertions about scholarship, and ask him how he knows what he knows, and challenge his credentials. Ask him for EVIDENCE...external, supporting, corroborative evidence. The gospels are not external evidence.

This will be easy, but will take some time, as almost every sentence is a problem, and a false assertion.
I'll post it here and there, as he will likely delete it there.

BTW, that quote "turbulent priest" from Henry II (in Becket), is likely not accurate, as Simon Schama points out. But Henry II is so interesting, as the Constitutions of Clarendon, which Becket agreed to, but refused to sign, prove that the movement towards independence from Rome FAR predated the "break" with Henry VIII.

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Assistant Manager, Vice Detection, Whoville : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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19-07-2012, 05:16 AM
RE: Who will rid me of this turbulent priest? (want to help in a debate?)
This argument is called "the christological argument"

First off: There is NO indisputable proof that the gospels are correct. And even if there was, that doesn't' make god real. that makes the legends real. It also proves from a serious form of lac of realism to think that ancient stories are accurate. Hell... even modern day reporting isn't really accurate. Mind you... the 4 official evangelist missed Jesus by about 50 to 60 years. Accurate stories? Sounds legit... Consider

Also:
If there once lived a man called "Clark Kent" (quite possible) does that make him superman?

More about the christological argument can be found here

Observer

Agnostic atheist
Secular humanist
Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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19-07-2012, 05:17 AM
RE: Who will rid me of this turbulent priest? (want to help in a debate?)
Oh no thank you, I value my sanity... I'm sure there are plenty of people here that can handle that kind of stress. Also, try this and this.

Use it wisely and good luck.

Smile

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I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours.
-Hunter S. Thompson
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19-07-2012, 05:33 AM
RE: Who will rid me of this turbulent priest? (want to help in a debate?)
*opens the critical thinking book, biblical contradiction site, logic site, history site, and obligatory proof for evolution, abiogensis, and origins of the universe pages*



Member of the Cult of Reason

The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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19-07-2012, 06:55 AM (This post was last modified: 19-07-2012 07:03 AM by Thomas.)
RE: Who will rid me of this turbulent priest? (want to help in a debate?)
From the priest's blog:
"The gospels are actually totally unique documents. They are recorded accounts of personal experiences of multiple individuals from within a faith community. They are the written record of the stories told and sermons preached by the immediate followers of Jesus Christ about his life, teaching and death. They were recorded by the faith community that followed the teaching of Jesus and his disciples."
...
In other words, they are complete bullshit. Trying to "re-invent" the gospels as "unique type of documents not subject to the normal criticle analysis", is about as weak of a argument as you can make for the validity of a document. This is consistent though with the entire christian argument.

I posted the above on the blog site listed under "Thomas"

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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19-07-2012, 07:06 AM
RE: Who will rid me of this turbulent priest? (want to help in a debate?)
(19-07-2012 06:55 AM)Thomas Wrote:  From the priest's blog:
"The gospels are actually totally unique documents. They are recorded accounts of personal experiences of multiple individuals from within a faith community. They are the written record of the stories told and sermons preached by the immediate followers of Jesus Christ about his life, teaching and death. They were recorded by the faith community that followed the teaching of Jesus and his disciples."
...
In other words, they are complete bullshit. Trying to "re-invent" the gospels as "unique type of documents not subject to the normal criticle analysis", is about as weak of a argument as you can make for the validity of a document. This is consistent though with the entire christian argument.

I posted the above on the blog site listed under "Thomas"
You think that is bad ? Look at his link to the non-objectivity of "historians" crap in the "historicity" link. He has no clue what historians do, and how they go about it.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating Yogi, CAAT-LY.
Assistant Manager, Vice Detection, Whoville : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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19-07-2012, 07:23 AM
RE: Who will rid me of this turbulent priest? (want to help in a debate?)
Hell and Holy Spirit... lemme go over there and stir up some shit right now...

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19-07-2012, 10:26 AM
RE: Who will rid me of this turbulent priest? (want to help in a debate?)
I posted the comment below on the site, but it didn't appear right away so I assume there is an approval queue.

You said two things here that are really on target:
1. The gospels are not factual news reports.
2. It is true that the gospels do not measure up to the standards of modern critical historical practice.
We have a word in the english language for documents that have these two characteristics - FICTION.
If you enjoy reading fiction, then by all means, read the gospels. But don't be a chump and try to live your life by them, or by anyone purporting to be a divine interpreter of them.
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19-07-2012, 10:42 AM
RE: Who will rid me of this turbulent priest? (want to help in a debate?)
And now a pictorial graph and what is going on:

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[Image: Bared_Teeth_Grey_Wolf.jpg]

[Image: 9d1c7183-d864-471c-af75-29f9db8faeb1.jpg]

[Image: Howlsnow.jpg]

[Image: pack-of-wolves.jpg]

[Image: 26-2639-6VYMD00Z.jpg]

[Image: black-wolf-pack.jpg]

[Image: scared_rabbit.jpg]

[Image: Arctic-Wolf.jpg]

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
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