Who wrote the gospels?
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10-08-2015, 05:28 AM
RE: Who wrote the gospels?
(10-08-2015 04:11 AM)RogueWarrior Wrote:  Why the holy colander do you want to assume the burden of proof in an argument with a theist? That seems silly to me.

It is their job to provide evidence that the gospels are true or why be bothered to believe them? You don't have to prove them to be false.

That fragments of the gospels exist and later complete versions as well is a fact. A book is just a book. Denying the gospels is like admitting in a god. Of course there were many gospels, many of which did not make it past Nicea.

You can even Google early fragments.

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10-08-2015, 05:32 AM
RE: Who wrote the gospels?



Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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10-08-2015, 05:51 AM
RE: Who wrote the gospels?
Personally of the Romans of the early Imperial period I like Vergil best. The Aeneid was a great book. Even if it was just a work of propaganda. I enjoyed it. Smile

Anyway, the early gospels exist in some fragments. Even if we go to Julian later quoting them at length.

When I sold my Loebs I kept Julian. Even if he was a Pagan nutcase. He hated Christianity. Smile

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10-08-2015, 02:04 PM
RE: Who wrote the gospels?
It is amazing to watch how many will defend the bible's veracity to their last breath. It's pretty well known that there was rampant pious fraud back when the bible was assembled. There was no concern whatsoever for any truth, any idiot could say that Jesus or Paul said such and such and would be believed.

I suppose if you are pursuing the scholarship of this time period, you do need to know the major players, but many of them have left their marks on ancient documents to prove their religious beliefs. (The Josephus interpolations citing Jesus for example)

As a layman, I'm fully willing to reject just about anything from this era's religious. They were contemptible charlatans and considering them anything but that is ultimately a waste of time. Any document from that era can be considered part of this rampant pious fraud until proven otherwise.

Fraud in the bible

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

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10-08-2015, 03:07 PM
RE: Who wrote the gospels?
My layman's contention is that no one back then followed Jesus around with a pen and papyrus in hand writing down precisely what Jesus said. It's hysterically funny to me that bible believers discuss every word Jesus was supposed to have said as if each utterance was a diamond that fell from his lips. It's total nonsense.

Who was around to write about Jesus going out in the desert, ALONE mind you, for 40 days and nights and having a private conversation with Satan? Was someone sitting behind a desert bush scribbling it all down? Or did Jesus come back to his group of buddies and kinda embellish the story the way most people do. Or was it embellished after decades of retelling. How did any of this desert information get out if Jesus didn't retell the story. Ummm. Sounds like bragging to me.


When Jesus was in the Garden of Gethsemane and his drinking buddies were asleep who wrote about what happened at that point. He prays. Who wrote down the exact wording. Or, did he come back and tell his buddies..."hey while you guys were asleep yada, yada, yada happened." Which sounds like bragging again.

Hell I can't remember what my husband said five hours ago. When there's a presidential speech on tv I can't remember half of what was said much less the exact wording.

It's all so ridiculous.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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10-08-2015, 04:45 PM
RE: Who wrote the gospels?
(10-08-2015 02:04 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  It is amazing to watch how many will defend the bible's veracity to their last breath. It's pretty well known that there was rampant pious fraud back when the bible was assembled. There was no concern whatsoever for any truth, any idiot could say that Jesus or Paul said such and such and would be believed.

I suppose if you are pursuing the scholarship of this time period, you do need to know the major players, but many of them have left their marks on ancient documents to prove their religious beliefs. (The Josephus interpolations citing Jesus for example)

As a layman, I'm fully willing to reject just about anything from this era's religious. They were contemptible charlatans and considering them anything but that is ultimately a waste of time. Any document from that era can be considered part of this rampant pious fraud until proven otherwise.

Fraud in the bible

I certainly hope you are not referring to me.

Having read Josephus I reject his mentioning Jesus and believe it likely to have been the work of Eusebius.

I am only referring to the early fragments from the later 100 CE and later.

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10-08-2015, 04:54 PM (This post was last modified: 10-08-2015 08:15 PM by TheInquisition.)
RE: Who wrote the gospels?
(10-08-2015 04:45 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 02:04 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  It is amazing to watch how many will defend the bible's veracity to their last breath. It's pretty well known that there was rampant pious fraud back when the bible was assembled. There was no concern whatsoever for any truth, any idiot could say that Jesus or Paul said such and such and would be believed.

I suppose if you are pursuing the scholarship of this time period, you do need to know the major players, but many of them have left their marks on ancient documents to prove their religious beliefs. (The Josephus interpolations citing Jesus for example)

As a layman, I'm fully willing to reject just about anything from this era's religious. They were contemptible charlatans and considering them anything but that is ultimately a waste of time. Any document from that era can be considered part of this rampant pious fraud until proven otherwise.

Fraud in the bible

I certainly hope you are not referring to me.

Having read Josephus I reject his mentioning Jesus and believe it likely to have been the work of Eusebius.

I am only referring to the early fragments from the later 100 CE and later.

Nah, I didn't even read your post before I posted.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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10-08-2015, 08:16 PM
RE: Who wrote the gospels?
(10-08-2015 03:45 AM)f stop Wrote:  
(07-08-2015 02:17 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Writings of the Gospels: Mark (60 to 75 CE), Matthew (80 to 90 CE), Luke (80 to 90 CE based on the Gospels of Mark), and John (80 to 110 CE).
I can't help but wonder how these dates were determined.

In a You Tube video D. M. Murdock (Acharya S) says that no one cited the gospels until late in the second century. That suggests that the gospels did not even exist until the late second century.

Can't agree there.

Clement of Rome, writing circa AD 95, wrote the following in his Letter to the Corinthians:

mindful of the words of the Lord Jesus which He spoke teaching us meekness and long-suffering. For thus He spoke: "Be merciful, that you may obtain mercy; forgive, that it may be forgiven to you; as you do, so shall it be done unto you; as you judge, so shall you be judged; as you are kind, so shall kindness be shown to you; with what measure ye mete, with the same it shall be measured to you."

the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, how He said, Woe to that man! It were better for him that he had never been born, than that he should cast a stumbling-block before one of my elect. Yea, it were better for him that a millstone should be hung about [his neck], and he should be sunk in the depths of the sea, than that he should cast a stumbling-block before one of my little ones.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1010.htm

Both of these quotes are almost verbatim to what currently has come down to us in the Gospels.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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10-08-2015, 08:20 PM
RE: Who wrote the gospels?
(10-08-2015 08:16 PM)Free Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 03:45 AM)f stop Wrote:  I can't help but wonder how these dates were determined.

In a You Tube video D. M. Murdock (Acharya S) says that no one cited the gospels until late in the second century. That suggests that the gospels did not even exist until the late second century.

Can't agree there.

Clement of Rome, writing circa AD 95, wrote the following in his Letter to the Corinthians:

mindful of the words of the Lord Jesus which He spoke teaching us meekness and long-suffering. For thus He spoke: "Be merciful, that you may obtain mercy; forgive, that it may be forgiven to you; as you do, so shall it be done unto you; as you judge, so shall you be judged; as you are kind, so shall kindness be shown to you; with what measure ye mete, with the same it shall be measured to you."

the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, how He said, Woe to that man! It were better for him that he had never been born, than that he should cast a stumbling-block before one of my elect. Yea, it were better for him that a millstone should be hung about [his neck], and he should be sunk in the depths of the sea, than that he should cast a stumbling-block before one of my little ones.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1010.htm

Both of these quotes are almost verbatim to what currently has come down to us in the Gospels.

But that in no way means they were at that point yet assembled in gospels, and it certainly doesn't say anything about whether they were actually spoken by him. all it proves is that someone can copy something.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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10-08-2015, 08:23 PM
RE: Who wrote the gospels?
(10-08-2015 08:20 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 08:16 PM)Free Wrote:  Can't agree there.

Clement of Rome, writing circa AD 95, wrote the following in his Letter to the Corinthians:

mindful of the words of the Lord Jesus which He spoke teaching us meekness and long-suffering. For thus He spoke: "Be merciful, that you may obtain mercy; forgive, that it may be forgiven to you; as you do, so shall it be done unto you; as you judge, so shall you be judged; as you are kind, so shall kindness be shown to you; with what measure ye mete, with the same it shall be measured to you."

the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, how He said, Woe to that man! It were better for him that he had never been born, than that he should cast a stumbling-block before one of my elect. Yea, it were better for him that a millstone should be hung about [his neck], and he should be sunk in the depths of the sea, than that he should cast a stumbling-block before one of my little ones.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1010.htm

Both of these quotes are almost verbatim to what currently has come down to us in the Gospels.

But that in no way means they were at that point yet assembled in gospels, and it certainly doesn't say anything about whether they were actually spoken by him. all it proves is that someone can copy something.

What it does is disproves that anything in the gospels were not cited until late 2nd century.

It doesn't really matter if the gospels were in written form or not, for the point is we still have a citation of what we know to be in them.

Agreed?

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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