Whom do you blame for the mess we are in and why?
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31-01-2012, 05:23 PM
RE: Whom do you blame for the mess we are in and why?
Sorry , joined this thread late , hope it's ok if I answer the first post :
1.Scientists - disagree , they produce tools with knowledge obtained. That is amoral , it lacks morality. You can use a knife to cut bread or throats. The knife is just a tool and the person who sold it to you is not responsible.
2.Journalists - agree
3.Public - agree
4.I would add rich people and the government(s) (not sure if I can exclude any one of them) who formed a high profile club where special private interests are given high priority because of bribes(can't call them but what they are) in the forms of campaign donations and lobbying. Public interests get no priority or attention at all.

I would add , that rich connected people will be well off while the rest of us can go fuck ourselves when the shit hits the fan.
One example I can give is communist Romania were I grew up. Regular people could not buy any goods because they were all exported. The connected people with ties to the political party (there was just one) got whatever they wanted whenever they wanted it.
My opinion is that if the public does not brake the bond of wealth and government , the sole executor of legal force , the situation will only improve when it reaches a critical treshold. Critical for the masses , but the powerful and rich shall feel no discomfort I assure you.

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31-01-2012, 05:35 PM
RE: Whom do you blame for the mess we are in and why?
Here is another example of the power of scientists over the whole planet.

During the Manhattan Project, close to the completion, one scientist raised an alarm: "Is it possible that after the detonation of the nuclear bomb, we would have a chain reaction that would burn off the entire atmosphere of the Planet?"

The possibility was real and frantic efforts followed where one of the senior Physicists (Edward Teller) did all the calculations to make sure that the event was extremely "unlikely".

And it never happened.

However, genius-caliber scientists took the possibility seriously enough to stop development until Teller's calculations were complete.

What if Teller made a mistake in his calculations?

What if pressure from the military and government minimized the danger?

You see what I mean?

Let me repeat: Scientists are the only group of people who have the power to destroy the entire Planet.

They can (and have done so) bestow enormous benefits on mankind and they can (and have done so), deliver us to the brink of disaster many times.

Without clearly understood ethical principles of science, we are living on borrowed times.
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31-01-2012, 08:57 PM
RE: Whom do you blame for the mess we are in and why?
(31-01-2012 05:35 PM)Zat Wrote:  Let me repeat: Scientists are the only group of people who have the power to destroy the entire Planet.

Scientists are feckless. They can't realize dick other than an interpretation of symbols on a piece of paper without engineers. Back in the day the scientists used to direct the engineers. Nowadays the scientists merely inform the engineers. We should be more concerned about all the engineers gone off the ranch rogue. Scientists don't scare me, engineers do.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
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31-01-2012, 09:25 PM (This post was last modified: 31-01-2012 09:40 PM by Zat.)
RE: Whom do you blame for the mess we are in and why?
(31-01-2012 08:57 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  We should be more concerned about all the engineers gone off the ranch rogue. Scientists don't scare me, engineers do.

You are right, GirlyMan -- I was sloppy with my language: I meant all the techies, from scientists to technicians who are participating in scientific/engineering projects.

As I said in Post #55:

Quote:as with any building, there are structural elements the rest of the building depends on, without which the building would collapse. These structural elements in human history have been the inventors, scientists, engineers, technicians -- all of those who have the power to keep us alive or destroy us all.

But the process starts with the scientists and inventors. Usually.
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31-01-2012, 10:47 PM
RE: Whom do you blame for the mess we are in and why?
Is difficult to blame a certain group I believe.
Which snow flake caused the avalanche?

The only shot we have at Social Responsibility is education.
We all screw this up together.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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31-01-2012, 10:53 PM
RE: Whom do you blame for the mess we are in and why?
(31-01-2012 10:47 PM)Thomas Wrote:  Is difficult to blame a certain group I believe.

Thomas, I hope that your car mechanic (or family doctor) won't give you this kind of answer next time you complain about a problem that you would like fixed!

Probably you would like him to pinpoint the "certain group" of components/system responsible for the problem and tell you what should be changed to fix it. Tongue
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01-02-2012, 12:14 AM
RE: Whom do you blame for the mess we are in and why?
(31-01-2012 10:53 PM)Zat Wrote:  
(31-01-2012 10:47 PM)Thomas Wrote:  Is difficult to blame a certain group I believe.

Thomas, I hope that your car mechanic (or family doctor) won't give you this kind of answer next time you complain about a problem that you would like fixed!

Probably you would like him to pinpoint the "certain group" of components/system responsible for the problem and tell you what should be changed to fix it. Tongue

I apologize in advance, I still haven't reread the thread. But... I think what you're doing when you say "scientists/technologists" is basically like going to the doc and saying "I have this pain all over" and he says "yes, it's your muscles". It's still not a specific answer. Too general.
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01-02-2012, 06:52 AM
RE: Whom do you blame for the mess we are in and why?
(31-01-2012 10:53 PM)Zat Wrote:  
(31-01-2012 10:47 PM)Thomas Wrote:  Is difficult to blame a certain group I believe.

Thomas, I hope that your car mechanic (or family doctor) won't give you this kind of answer next time you complain about a problem that you would like fixed!

Probably you would like him to pinpoint the "certain group" of components/system responsible for the problem and tell you what should be changed to fix it. Tongue

Yes, that's precisely what I want the mechanic or doctor to do. What do you want him to do?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-02-2012, 06:57 AM
RE: Whom do you blame for the mess we are in and why?
(01-02-2012 12:14 AM)morondog Wrote:  I apologize in advance, I still haven't reread the thread. But... I think what you're doing when you say "scientists/technologists" is basically like going to the doc and saying "I have this pain all over" and he says "yes, it's your muscles". It's still not a specific answer. Too general.

morondog, no apology is necessary.

Suggestion: read through the whole thread, from beginning to end, leaving nothing out, and think about it for a few days. I know it is a lot of work but it is a VERY important subject.

It is only a friendly suggestion, of course. Smile
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03-02-2012, 02:25 AM
RE: Whom do you blame for the mess we are in and why?
The Mainstream Media........for only telling half truths and what only fits the agenda that TPTB want the masses to see.

Educated People........who understand what problems are in the world today yet dont bother doing anything about it.

What bothers me most about the atom bomb is when they first tested it they wasnt sure if the reaction would ever stop Sad

EDIT: Lol ive just noticed Zat you pointed my last statement out on post #82....damn these sleepy eyes Smile

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