Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
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19-12-2013, 10:14 PM (This post was last modified: 19-12-2013 10:34 PM by savedwheat.)
Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
I just wanted you to know what I believe, why I believe it and why I can't change what I believe, because the evidence is too substantial and powerful.

For me there is no debate between atheism and theism, because I know the universe can't come from nothing--that which does not exist--for that which does not exist can't cause anything as it does not exist. So the universe has to come from something.

But what is that something? For starters, that something can't be an infinite regress of cause and effects, because if there was an infinite regress of cause and effects in nature, you would have had an eternity to come into being before now, so you should have already happened, having had an eternity to do so. Infinite regress further contradicts itself because if there was an eternity of the past of cause and effects, you should have never existed, because a past eternity would go on for eternity never reaching this point now today.

Therefore, it stands to reason that nature needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, being uncreated that we can call the uncreated Creator that always existed.

And since the uncreated Creator can't be less than us, it must have a mind for that which is less than a mind can't cause a mind. A mind is needed to create a mind--with self-awareness and God-consciousness. And we are personal so the uncreated Creator must be personal for the impersonal can't cause the personal. And as we are accessible so is the uncreated Creator must be accessible as His standards cannot be below our own. There are only 3 faiths in the world that are accessible with enough adherents to span the globe and not hidden from plain view or difficult to access: Christianity, Islam and Hinduism.

But Hinduism is false, because that would be silly for you to come back as a chicken if you were a bad human and never effectively deals with sin by receiving endless chances. And the god of Hinduism, Brahma, is considered impersonal it is said which is below our nature of being personal. Islam is false because it has no evidence six centuries later to claim Jesus never even went to the cross, contrary to the scores of evidence, Jesus died on the cross as the most documented person in antiquity who had more sources written about Him than any ten figures combined from antiquity within 150 years of their deaths.

Without knowing anything else, we know, therefore, Christianity must be true. But the proof for Christianity (the 66 books of the Bible proves itself to be true) is the resurrection of Jesus proving He is God as only God can resurrect Himself. Since there is no naturalistic explanation to account for the multiple eyewitness testimony of the Apostles in various group settings, therefore, it must be true they were with Jesus for 40 days after resurrection. Group hallucinations are medically impossible. People don't willingly die for what they know is a lie. The swoon theory wouldn't convince anyone Jesus is the risen Lord. The only plausible explanation is Jesus is the 2nd Person of the Trinity.

I also believe God is infinitely greater than us so no amount of work or self-improvement can bridge the gap between us and God. We will always fall short and never fully satisfy God's heart. Islam and Hinduism follow this works based faith scheme of self-improvement, and they can never sure if they are saved. Only in Christianity do you find God personally enters His creation to save us when we can't save ourselves, by taking upon Himself the sins of the world to forgive any who would receive Him to be saved and receive eternal life. Instead of us working our way up to God, God condescends Himself for our benefit and pays the penalty in our stead. That is the greatest love ever known!

I just wanted you to know why I believe what I believe, for I don't know how to overturn this evidence, thus, locked into my faith as a Christian for that is the God I gave my life to be kept when I certainly couldn't keep myself saved. God draws all, but sadly many "draw back unto perdition" (Heb. 10.39). "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (John 10.28). I would only ask that you hold yourself to the highest standard of evidence I have provided here. Don't accept anything less.

Praise the Lord!
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19-12-2013, 10:27 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist and not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
Great testimony savedweat.
Welcome to this friendly, reasonable, polite atheist venue.
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19-12-2013, 10:34 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist and not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
Hold on; if the universe must have had a creator by dint of it existing, doesn't that mean that your supposed creator exists, and thus would itself require a creator, thus causing an infinite regress of creators by your own rules?

This looks an awful lot like it ends up in 'It's Turtles all the way down".

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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19-12-2013, 10:38 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(19-12-2013 10:34 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Hold on; if the universe must have had a creator by dint of it existing, doesn't that mean that your supposed creator exists, and thus would itself require a creator, thus causing an infinite regress of creators by your own rules?
Nature requires a creator outside of time and space, so the creator is uncreated, having no cause, but always existed.

And your infinite regress of creators fails for the same reason that if there was an infinite regress of cause and effects, you would have happened already having had an eternity to do so of your gods causing gods forever in the past.
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19-12-2013, 10:39 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
Groundhog Day Movie x infinity
[Image: groundhog_day.jpg]
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19-12-2013, 10:42 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
So the reason someone is an atheist is because they want to be eternally separated from God. God gives you that free choice--free choice is not free if you don't have this option. C.S. Lewis said you actually lock yourself in Hell from the inside because ultimately it's what you prefer and God gives you want you want in terms of where to dwell for eternity. But once you leave your body of flesh and blood the decision is final. In other words, you won't change your mind in a trillion years from now. No wonder why you never hear of anyone over the age of 40 ever giving their life to Christ, let alone a billion years later, for that was more than enough time to decide. Assuming the age of accountability is 15 years old for someone, that's 25 years x 365 days/yr = 9,125 days to decide.
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19-12-2013, 10:44 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
The two rules of atheism.

Rule 1. There is no God
Rule 2. If God exists, I hate Him
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19-12-2013, 10:44 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(19-12-2013 10:42 PM)savedwheat Wrote:  So the reason someone is an atheist is because they want to be eternally separated from God.

God is not real. The only separation is that of reality from fiction.
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19-12-2013, 10:45 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(19-12-2013 10:44 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  The two rules of atheism.

Rule 1. There is no God
Rule 2. If God exists, I hate Him
Delusion is a free choice.
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19-12-2013, 10:45 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(19-12-2013 10:38 PM)savedwheat Wrote:  
(19-12-2013 10:34 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Hold on; if the universe must have had a creator by dint of it existing, doesn't that mean that your supposed creator exists, and thus would itself require a creator, thus causing an infinite regress of creators by your own rules?
Nature requires a creator outside of time and space, so the creator is uncreated, having no cause, but always existed.

And your infinite regress of creators fails for the same reason that if there was an infinite regress of cause and effects, you would have happened already having had an eternity to do so of your gods causing gods forever in the past.

Either your deity exists or not: if it does, it does so in a form of nature, time and space are in such a way irrelevant to the concept of straight existence, and thus requires a creator by your own rules man, if not, then that speaks for itself.

Assuming you are right and the deity does not require a creator, why make an exception only for your deity and why can't the universe have existed 'forever' and merely had a self-contained reality which we perceive? In such a way the 'nature' to which you refer would have existed in the same way as your deity; without itself and the universe would have existed in and of itself by it's own virtue of existence outside time and space.

Please excuse me whilst I go stack turtles upon turtles.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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