Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
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20-12-2013, 04:57 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(20-12-2013 04:54 PM)savedwheat Wrote:  Thanks for your time. If anyone wants to talk to me further, you can do so at Biblocality forums. I'm busy, and can't waste my time with mindless banter. See ya.

You realize you have no leg to stand on, pardon the cliche, so you run. Typical.
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20-12-2013, 04:58 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(20-12-2013 04:50 PM)savedwheat Wrote:  So far there is no evidence for being an atheist, so you should revert to being agnostic.

Who told you atheists can't be agnostic? Who's filling your head with this BS? I'm agnostic; the two aren't mutually exclusive. So are a lot of Christians I know, by the way. It's not a religious word, either. Stop getting caught up in word games. To be 100% sure (not agnostic) would require more knowledge than I have available. So until you present some real evidence, I'm going to continue not believing in gods, unicorns, dragons, moonbugs and logical theists (ZING!).

Now, you've stated a universal rule stating something cannot come from nothing. You are not agnostic about your position; you say it is a fact. I'm still waiting for your credentials, by the way...

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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20-12-2013, 04:58 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(20-12-2013 04:43 PM)savedwheat Wrote:  I'm an evidentialist. I go where the evidence takes me.

Atheists are presuppositionalists because they have no evidence for their claim, nor even try to supply any, God does not exist. I don't see any difference between an Atheist and Muslim because they both start from the presupposition, e.g. six centuries later claiming Jesus never event went to the cross without any evidence to try to support their claim. Crazy stuff!

Atheists make no claim. The claims of theists are DISMISSED. THAT is not a claim. The CLAIM is made by theists that there is a deity. Of the billions of possible explanations, they LAND upon THEIR specific deity. THAT is presuppositionalism. There is no evidence for any deities, especially for the 70th son of the chief Babylonian god, El Elyon, (Yahweh Sabaoth).
Islam is an irrelevant attempt at deflection, and totally beside the point. ALlah originated as moon-god, just as Yahweh originated as the god of the armies.
What he *sees* or thinks is completely irrelevant. As ignorant as he;s proven himself to be, in Philosophy, Theology, and Physics, he's not in any position to be telling anyone what they think, or spouting off about the risks involved concerning anything.
Just another fundie troll, visited upon us by Jebus.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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20-12-2013, 04:59 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(20-12-2013 04:54 PM)savedwheat Wrote:  Thanks for your time. If anyone wants to talk to me further, you can do so at Biblocality forums. I'm busy, and can't waste my time with mindless banter. See ya.

Run away little theist. Tried to "prove" your BS with a worn out and thoroughly debunked spew of nonsense and are now just mad that we are laughing at you.

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(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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20-12-2013, 05:01 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(20-12-2013 04:57 PM)Foxen Wrote:  
(20-12-2013 04:54 PM)savedwheat Wrote:  Thanks for your time. If anyone wants to talk to me further, you can do so at Biblocality forums. I'm busy, and can't waste my time with mindless banter. See ya.

You realize you have no leg to stand on, pardon the cliche, so you run. Typical.

Don't wait up. You have nothing to offer. Buh bye. Come back when you learn how to debate, honestly, and intelligently.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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20-12-2013, 05:02 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
Okay, since the first post, times three...I see we are up to about a bazillion pages. Someone want to give me the Reader's Digest version of what shreddedwheat has to say?

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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20-12-2013, 05:03 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
Define nothing.

I remember reading many years ago a theory that postulated that our Big Bang was a result of the interactions between other universes in the multiverse. Where did those universes come from? I don't know. I think the cycle of the multiverse might be cyclical, but that's just a guess and I have no evidence just a rational deduction.
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20-12-2013, 05:03 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
Looks like something left with nothing (ZING!).

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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20-12-2013, 05:04 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(20-12-2013 05:02 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Okay, since the first post, times three...I see we are up to about a bazillion pages. Someone want to give me the Reader's Digest version of what shreddedwheat has to say?

Kalam Cosmological Argument. The rest is just standard refutation of said argument.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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20-12-2013, 05:07 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(20-12-2013 04:31 PM)savedwheat Wrote:  
(20-12-2013 04:23 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  Not having met a Scot without red hair doesn't prove that there isn't such a person, nor that such a person can never be born.

Think about what you are saying. There are trillions of cause and effects and nature, but because this is specific (I am not sure how you will find something general better than this) that it still holds out the possibility that something can come from non-existence. This is why I call this false humility on your part, because what is beyond a reasonable doubt and an overwhelming preponderance of evidence, we can conclude gravity is true because the apple falls and that non-existence can't bring into existence anything.

Let me know if you accept this yet and are ready to move to addressing infinite regress. Otherwise, you are the worst of all gamblers who is certain to lose rolling that 10 trillion sided die and hoping to come up with a 1.

Something can't come from nothing.

This law established by observing nature is a solid: "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" (Rom. 1.20).

First, your citation of "trillions" is likely high. What are you basing it on? It sounds like a number that you just made up, which doesn't bode well for the quality of your arguments. I have not experienced trillions of events for which I have definitely determined that they have a cause. As a rough estimate, I'd place the number in the million-to-billion range. Nor, would I guess, has humanity recorded such a high number for prosperity. And as previously mentioned, most of these are confined to a particular human scale and a particular human time-frame.

Second, even if I were to accept your number of "trillions", let's compare this to the number of events actually occurring in the universe. With apologies to Sagan, the number of particle interactions in, say, a second, would exceed "trillions" or even "trillions of trillions". I'd guess even "trillions of trillions of trillions". (As a rough guideline, "billions of billions" is actually a reasonable order of magnitude for the stars in the universe, and each star will easily have a million trillion atoms, and every second each of these atoms will be under the various effects of pressure, collisions, and so on, so a trillion-trillion-trillion is probably a low estimate.) So moving on to your fallacious argument of the world's worst gambler, rolling your trillion-sided die ONCE and betting on a win would indeed be stupid. But betting on rolling 1,000,000,000,000 at least once, if I get a trillion-trillion-trillion rolls per second, and can keep rolling for the entire age of the universe? Assuming we actually had the facilities to conduct such gambling, that would be easy money.

So to answer you, yes I am ready to move on. But I am not ready to accept your claim as indubitable fact. I am ready to accept it as a hypothetical or strong tendency or even established on the human scale, but you haven't done the legwork to move beyond that.

Since you are insistent that I must accept this before we can even discuss infinite regress, we seem to be at an impasse. It will probably take some time to resolve this impasse. Therefore, let me present you with a proof of the non-existence of God, which we can entertain ourselves with until this impasse is resolved.

(1) Because of the limitations of physical matter present to actually record numbers on, writing out all the 0s of a googolplex is a practical impossibility, and we cannot even begin to communicate on the subject of a googolplex-googolplex. Therefore, if we were to begin our dating scheme at, say the timestamp of this post, it would be impossible to conceive of a googolplex-googolplex of years in the past. Therefore, before that point, nothing could have existed.
(2) The present year is Googolplex-Googolplex Before Timestamp.
Conclusion: God does not exist.

I grant you that both premises are essential to the syllogism, and that if either of them are disproven the entire thing falls apart. However, it is very necessary to go through them one at a time, and I refuse to hear any complaints regarding (2) until the question of (1) is settled. When you accept (1), we can move on to discussing (2). Not before.
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