Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
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20-12-2013, 05:07 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(20-12-2013 04:51 PM)savedwheat Wrote:  You are agnostic not atheist. It would be wrong then to call yourself atheist.

Atheism
Religion
Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist. Wikipedia

"Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist."
This is me right here, love. I don't have to deny the existence of a deity to be atheist. I simply have to lack a belief that any deities exist.
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20-12-2013, 05:09 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(20-12-2013 04:31 PM)savedwheat Wrote:  
(20-12-2013 04:23 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  Not having met a Scot without red hair doesn't prove that there isn't such a person, nor that such a person can never be born.

Think about what you are saying. There are trillions of cause and effects and nature, but because this is specific (I am not sure how you will find something general better than this) that it still holds out the possibility that something can come from non-existence. This is why I call this false humility on your part, because what is beyond a reasonable doubt and an overwhelming preponderance of evidence, we can conclude gravity is true because the apple falls and that non-existence can't bring into existence anything.

Let me know if you accept this yet and are ready to move to addressing infinite regress. Otherwise, you are the worst of all gamblers who is certain to lose rolling that 10 trillion sided die and hoping to come up with a 1.

Something can't come from nothing.

This law established by observing nature is a solid: "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" (Rom. 1.20).
Without even establishing any facts about the possibility of something coming from nothing ( even tho Chas already pointed out to you that there are examples of something coming from nothing ) it is very easy to show that the logic behind your whole argument is invalid.

You can't use a rule Something can't come from nothing as a proof of something that is exempt from that very rule (god ) you have established as a starting point of your argument.
By introducing the exception to the rule, you are rendering the rule invalid or at least imperfect, so you need to go back to the start and redefine the rule and start all over again.
The whole argument doesn't make any sense at all. It's like claiming that since 2+2 always equals 4, that is somehow proof that in one case 2+2 equals 5.

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20-12-2013, 05:10 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(20-12-2013 05:04 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(20-12-2013 05:02 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Okay, since the first post, times three...I see we are up to about a bazillion pages. Someone want to give me the Reader's Digest version of what shreddedwheat has to say?

Kalam Cosmological Argument. The rest is just standard refutation of said argument.

Please wake me if it ever becomes interesting. Rolleyes

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20-12-2013, 05:16 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
Aaaaand he's gone. Geez. Didn't have much fight in him, did he?

BRAVE SIR ROBIN!
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20-12-2013, 05:31 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
Dammit you scared him away!

Well at least I got something out of it to add to my signature.
(It gives me the giggles every time I read it!)

Onward, my faithful steed!
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20-12-2013, 05:34 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
Damn drive-by dipshits.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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20-12-2013, 05:37 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
I'm just thinking about the thread title "not just any kind..."
This guy really thinks he's special. SadcryfaceWeeping

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20-12-2013, 05:39 PM (This post was last modified: 20-12-2013 05:49 PM by savedwheat.)
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
Consider this a mercy post Reltzik like a last encore (as I have had many calls to post back), to show you where I am coming from, and that 10 trillion to infinite power replies show each and every time you are wrong which is why I decided to end the conversation here at this point and not waste my time except to provide you more of my time at that link I gave for those who would be searching out the truth with a more sincere heart, as God says you shall surely find me if you do so which explains why you are the way you are because you don't sincerely do so. A disingenuous heart gets you know where. At least you can see why Hell is needed so you don't waste my time anymore, for there you will be forgotten.

That a really long time in your infinite regress theory of googleplexes fails as evidence in a proof for atheism, because length of time of cause and effects only leads to the next question what caused that first complex that you go back to. That you stop there is very dullminded to me as you blank out on the cause of it. So it is no proof of atheism. It proves that still something can't come from nothing in nature and infinite regress is impossible for the reasons given in the opening post (you would have happened already having had an eternity to do so). Ergo, the uncreated Creator is established out of necessity, outside of time and space.

That being said, you will say what you say, I will say why you are wrong again, on and on, and you are always wrong the nature of someone who deserves Hell.

I can offer you this though. Think of all your hard work at each response is an expression of your hostility to God the same hostility, disobedience, independence of the first two God-conscious people Adam and Even about 6000 years ago when God breathed in the breath of life directly creating a living soul into the body of pre-Adamic men. Cain is going to Hell, but Abel was saved because he did not give an offering of his works or self-strength like Cain did. Surely you will misunderstand what I said, but suffice it to say, the same Hell-ridden thought process usurps itself why they were locked out of the Garden of Eden, the safest place on the planet.

You need not know every cause and effect to know infinite regress and something from nothing are impossible. Again, that would be false humility. Suffice it to say the overwhelming preponderance of evidence is such because it far exceeds your 0 points of evidence for your faith. Can you see you are claiming you have to be God all knowing to know if God exists? This is the epitome of self-exaltation above your creator.

Whether the score is 1 million to 0, 10 billion to 0, or googleplexes to 0, you still lose because so many cause and effects and no hard evidence of something from nothing shows you are the loser and the loser goes to Hell. I would not wish upon my worse enemy where you are going.

This is God's perfect design to save whosoever willing to come to the cross as a helpless sinner to receive the Lord Jesus as Savior whom shall not perish but have everlasting life. Amen.

By the way, you perishing is not ceasing to exist if you were hoping for a way out. It is an eternal conscious separation of you in Hell knowing your evil.
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20-12-2013, 05:40 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(19-12-2013 10:14 PM)savedwheat Wrote:  Group hallucinations are medically impossible.

Dafuq you say? You just going to the wrong parties. Back in the day all our parties were group hallucinations silly. Tongue

#sigh
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20-12-2013, 05:40 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
So, savedwheat says he spends his time at Biblocality. They be cray-cray. Shocking

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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