Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
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21-12-2013, 08:10 AM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(21-12-2013 04:55 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(19-12-2013 10:14 PM)savedwheat Wrote:  ...Jesus died on the cross as the most documented person in antiquity who had more sources written about Him than any ten figures combined from antiquity within 150 years of their deaths.

Let me introduce you to a friend of mine, Gaius Julius Caesar, Dictator of Rome.

[Image: 450px-0092_-_Wien_-_Kunsthistorisches_Mu...r-edit.jpg]

This striking figure before you, carved out of marble, is what Julius Caesar actually looked like. This bust was carved in his lifetime, from his likeliness.

We know he was born in July of 100BC in Rome, and died 55 years later on the 15th of March, 44BC in the Curia of Pompey in Rome; at the hands of a conspiracy of senators led by Gaius Cassius Longinus and Marcus Junius Brutus.

We know that he had lovers, children, and other notable relatives, all of whom can be independently corroborated as figures of history. He was lover of Cleopatra VII (the last Pharaoh of Egypt), and through her had a son named Caesarion; himself killed at age 17 by Caesar's adopted son Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus (later known as the Emperor Augustus).

This is a bust of the young Octavianus, dated to 30BC.

[Image: 445px-Augustus_Statue.JPG]


This is a coin of the Roman Empire, minted during Caesar's reign, that contains his portrait in profile. This is more artwork depicting Caesar in his own time.

[Image: caesardictquart_boston.jpg]


These are the Commentarii de Bello Gallico (Commentaries on the Galic War) and the Commentarii de Bello Civili (Commentaries on the Civil War), both authored by Julius Caesar; and both considered to be classics of Latin literature. That's right, we have surviving copies of the works written by Caesar, authored by the man himself.

[Image: Commentarii_de_Bello_Gallico.jpg]

[Image: Lucanus,_De_bello_civili_ed._Pulmann_(Pl...e_page.jpg]



Now compare all of that to one Jesus of Nazareth. Unfortunately we do not have portraits or statues of him, so we do not know what he looked like. He is never mentioned by any contemporary sources, nor is he known to have had any lovers or children (depending on which apocrypha you go by). He held no important political office, no does he at all appear to have been well known. We do not know the time of his birth (with contradictory stories that place it 10 years apart at best), nor do we know the date or circumstances of his death (once again, contradictory claims to happening before or on Passover, and no year is mentioned). He never wrote anything down in his own handwriting.


[Image: RealJesus2.jpg]

*Not actual images of Jesus, but the one of the right is closer to reality if a 1st century Galilean carpenter really was at the center of these myths.*



Not only that, but unlike Caesar, Jesus is not historically dependant. What do I mean by that? History depends on there being a Caesar who actually said and did the things that are attributed to him by all of his contemporary sources. For the Roman Empire to have arose, it really did require Caesar to have crossed the Rubicon and defeated Pompey, establish himself as Dictator for Life, and have been critical in the upbringing of Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus (later known as the First Emperor of Rome, Caesar Augustus).

Jesus has no such dependency. All that is required to explain Christianty and our current understanding of history, is a belief in Jesus. This is compatible with a divine son of god, a simple preacher and cult leader, or a non-existent legendary myth. Jesus didn't actually have to say or do anything of the things attributed to him (decades after his supposed death, recording anonymous hearsay upon hearsay by non-eyewitnesses) to fully explain history. All that was needed was a simple belief that they happened, history is not contingent on them actually having happened.


So thank you for demonstrating just how god-awful ignorant you are of everything, from history and the evaluation of evidence, to the origins of your own religion. So go away and preach to some people who are stupid enough to by into the shit you pull out of your ass, we'll have none of it here.








http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Caesar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar's_Civil_War
http://www2.cnr.edu/Home/araia/caesarcoins.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassinati...ius_Caesar

That was...um...how do I even descibe it? That was beautiful. Just beautiful.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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21-12-2013, 10:31 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
I can understand the need to think someone was resurrected prior to Jesus, but prior to Jesus there simply were no accounts of resurrecting gods or people for that matter. Those fanciful ideas are in documents after the first century, after Jesus, about individuals or gods prior to Christ. Only God can resurrect Himself as Jesus did.

These documents are what scholarship agrees on. Scholars also make note that 90+% of retards make the claim there were resurrected gods prior to Jesus, but that 90+% of scholars disagree with those retards who have no degrees, phd's and masters to back up their retardation. The Internet is getting inundated with self-proclaimed retards making retarded claims with no evidence to back it up. I am talking to several here now.
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21-12-2013, 10:33 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(21-12-2013 10:31 PM)savedwheat Wrote:  I can understand the need to think someone was resurrected prior to Jesus, but prior to Jesus there simply were no accounts of resurrecting gods or people for that matter. Those fanciful ideas are in documents after the first century, after Jesus, about individuals or gods prior to Christ. Only God can resurrect Himself as Jesus did.

These documents are what scholarship agrees on. Scholars also make note that 90+% of retards make the claim there were resurrected gods prior to Jesus, but that 90+% of scholars disagree with those retards who have no degrees, phd's and masters to back up their retardation. The Internet is getting inundated with self-proclaimed retards making retarded claims with no evidence to back it up. I am talking to several here now.
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21-12-2013, 10:35 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
Please no retard posts.
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21-12-2013, 10:37 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(21-12-2013 10:35 PM)savedwheat Wrote:  Please no retard posts.

Well you would have to stop posting then.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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21-12-2013, 10:41 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(20-12-2013 09:23 PM)savedwheat Wrote:  Muslims say Jesus didn't die on the cross because they are stupid too.

Scientists have proven that you will die in 12 minutes hanging on a cross.

Umm, citation needed.

I've heard the exact opposite. That it is a slow and painful death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion

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21-12-2013, 10:42 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
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21-12-2013, 10:44 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(21-12-2013 10:35 PM)savedwheat Wrote:  Please no retard posts.

You keep providing us with so many good examples of what you don't want, hence you'll never get your wish.

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21-12-2013, 10:52 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(21-12-2013 10:41 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(20-12-2013 09:23 PM)savedwheat Wrote:  Muslims say Jesus didn't die on the cross because they are stupid too.

Scientists have proven that you will die in 12 minutes hanging on a cross.

Umm, citation needed.

I've heard the exact opposite. That it is a slow and painful death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion

Correct.

Crucifixion wasn't about killing the victim. It was about making them a public spectacle. The fact they died was almost incidental.
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21-12-2013, 10:55 PM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(21-12-2013 10:52 PM)natachan Wrote:  
(21-12-2013 10:41 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Umm, citation needed.

I've heard the exact opposite. That it is a slow and painful death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion

Correct.

Crucifixion wasn't about killing the victim. It was about making them a public spectacle. The fact they died was almost incidental.

To put it the way Carlin did, it was fucking THEATRE. M'kay?

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