Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
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20-12-2013, 01:35 AM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(20-12-2013 01:26 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(19-12-2013 10:14 PM)savedwheat Wrote:  I just wanted you to know what I believe, why I believe it and why I can't change what I believe...

For me there is no debate between atheism and theism...

I also believe.....

I just wanted you to know why I believe what I believe...

I would only ask that you hold yourself to the highest standard of evidence......Don't accept anything less.

So I took the opportunity to edit your OP. I figured it might be helpful and polite of me to restructure your arguments with all the known fallacies, baseless assertions, and claims of evidence that ain't actually evidence removed, and false claims to knowledge. I figured this would help you better convey your thoughts and make a dialog slightly more fluid and cordial.

The quote contained in this post is what is left with the above list of problems removed. Now on to the discussion!

What I gather is that you believe something and you want us to know that you believe and why you do, that we should hold claims to extremely high standard of evidence while also providing no evidence at all, let alone to the "high standard" you your self say we should have, for the thing you want us to know you believe.
So my argument to that is.....Yes? Maybe?Huh

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20-12-2013, 01:41 AM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(20-12-2013 01:31 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Are you, perchance, William Lane Craig's parrot? Consider




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20-12-2013, 01:47 AM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(20-12-2013 01:26 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(19-12-2013 10:14 PM)savedwheat Wrote:  I just wanted you to know what I believe, why I believe it and why I can't change what I believe...

For me there is no debate between atheism and theism...

I also believe.....

I just wanted you to know why I believe what I believe...

I would only ask that you hold yourself to the highest standard of evidence......Don't accept anything less.

So I took the opportunity to edit your OP. I figured it might be helpful and polite of me to restructure your arguments with all the known fallacies, baseless assertions, and claims of evidence that ain't actually evidence removed, and false claims to knowledge. I figured this would help you better convey your thoughts and make a dialog slightly more fluid and cordial.

The quote contained in this post is what is left with the above list of problems removed. Now on to the discussion!

What I gather is that you believe something and you want us to know that you believe and why you do, that we should hold claims to extremely high standard of evidence while also providing no evidence at all, let alone to the "high standard" you your self say we should have, for the thing you want us to know you believe.
So my argument to that is.....Yes? Maybe?Huh



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20-12-2013, 02:00 AM (This post was last modified: 20-12-2013 02:04 AM by savedwheat.)
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(20-12-2013 01:19 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  ..... dammit, this is Kalam, isn't it?

Let's take things slow. I can't address everyone's comments here because I am being gang banged. But as to your first point, it's not Kalam's. Remember Kalam's assumes the universe began. I don't assume that, but instead I start with the first piece of evidence that that which does not exist can't cause anything; then I go to the reason why infinite regress in nature is impossible. Let me know if you understand that so we can proceed further onto the next point.

May I say something funny yet quite accurate and true while I wait for your reply? All these responses remind of Neo in the Matrix in all the iterations of his responses to the Architect on those old TV's on the wall. I sense the evil spirits and demonic spirits slashing around those emotions of you atheists. You get a sense of what Hell is like by that.
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20-12-2013, 02:08 AM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(19-12-2013 11:43 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  
(19-12-2013 11:25 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Rule 1. You make an assertion, back it up with fucking EVIDENCE.

a) I dont have to meet your standard of proof.
You know, it's late and I'm tired, and I was just about to get up and walk away from the sisyphean effort of addressing the absolute worst of what the entire pathetic fucking tide of proselytizing bullshit snake oil salesman on this pathetic fucking planet have to offer, and suddenly I noticed your offer of this magnificent GEM.



I call POE.


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20-12-2013, 02:10 AM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(20-12-2013 02:00 AM)savedwheat Wrote:  
(20-12-2013 01:19 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  ..... dammit, this is Kalam, isn't it?

Let's take things slow. I can't address everyone's comments here because I am being gang banged. But as to your first point, it's not Kalam's. Remember Kalam's assumes the universe began. I don't assume that, but instead I start with the first piece of evidence that that which does not exist can't cause anything; then I go to the reason why infinite regress in nature is impossible. Let me know if you understand that so we can proceed further onto the next point.

You're referring to the classical version, I'm flagging it as the contemporary version. Here. I understand that piece of your argument, but I also reject it. The part about infinite regress being impossible is fallacious.

(20-12-2013 02:00 AM)savedwheat Wrote:  May I say something funny yet quite accurate and true while I wait for your reply? All these responses remind of Neo in the Matrix in all the iterations of his responses to the Architect on those old TV's on the wall. I sense the evil spirits and demonic spirits slashing around those emotions of you atheists. You get a sense of what Hell is like by that.

I think my telemarketer metaphor better explains why this argument pisses so many of us off.
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20-12-2013, 02:14 AM (This post was last modified: 20-12-2013 02:26 AM by savedwheat.)
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(20-12-2013 02:10 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  The part about infinite regress being impossible is fallacious.

So do you agree with the first point the fact something can't come from nothing? If we can agree to that we can move to the infinite regress matter.

By the way I don't use the contemporary Kalam either since I don't assume anything like Craig does in his first point of his contemporary argument. I first go to evidence.

This probably doesn't interest you, but incidentally, Craig is not a Christian because he is into works based salvation, rejecting John 10.28 which says those who are born-again "they shall never perish." Craig thinks if his works are not good enough he could still go to Hell. Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox believe the same heresy quite similar to all other religions. Naturally, Craig flocks to this heresy because of his prolific work which he erects as an idol before God and others. Yet it does not bring him one inch closer to salvation. God's way transcend man's idea of salvation. Salvation is not by works lest any man should boast. In fact, I can assure you the location in Hell Craig is going to will be far more punishing than the one you go to, because he knows better with so much knowledge. Did you ever see Cabin in the Woods? That's what it is sort of like each person locked in their prison cell in Hell unwilling to repent with their proclivities able to roam about only so far. It is a totally appropriate place for them since they can't be with God's sons and daughters in the New City and New Earth totally without any sin or selfishness.

That would explain Craig's unclear thinking on this matter since he does not have the Holy Spirit in his innerman.
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20-12-2013, 02:22 AM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(20-12-2013 02:00 AM)savedwheat Wrote:  Let's take things slow. I can't address everyone's comments here because I am being gang banged.
We have a section dedicated to one-on-one debates; I suggest you open a thread there if you are interested in discussing your arguments without any interference from other members.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...oxing-Ring

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20-12-2013, 02:25 AM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(20-12-2013 02:00 AM)savedwheat Wrote:  I sense the evil spirits and demonic spirits slashing around those emotions of you atheists. You get a sense of what Hell is like by that.

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20-12-2013, 02:27 AM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(20-12-2013 02:00 AM)savedwheat Wrote:  Remember Kalam's assumes the universe began. I don't assume that, but instead I start with the first piece of evidence that that which does not exist can't cause anything....

The universe can not be the cause of itself because a thing that does not exist can't cause anything ( including itself) but the universe did not begin so it's always existed which means it never did not exist and there for has no need to come into existence cause it already existed.
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