Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
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20-12-2013, 05:43 AM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
1. Are you trying to convert us?
2. Are you a troll?
3. Do you question your own beliefs and wish to be enlightened?

So far pretty much every post you have made has at least been rounded off with a low quality attempt at flaming us. It's very poor 3/10 ... Please leave or ramp it up a bit. Give us some new arguments and better insults. Thanks x

Ps, it's an atheist rule that we only rape virgins, please confirm before I whip my strides down whether you are/or have been in a Catholic choir or youth group! Smile

I'll just play the 'can I help you' lick!!!
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20-12-2013, 05:53 AM (This post was last modified: 20-12-2013 06:17 AM by guitarist.)
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(19-12-2013 10:14 PM)savedwheat Wrote:  I just wanted you to know what I believe, why I believe it and why I can't change what I believe, because the evidence is too substantial and powerful.

For me there is no debate between atheism and theism, because I know the universe can't come from nothing--that which does not exist--for that which does not exist can't cause anything as it does not exist. So the universe has to come from something.

But what is that something? For starters, that something can't be an infinite regress of cause and effects, because if there was an infinite regress of cause and effects in nature, you would have had an eternity to come into being before now, so you should have already happened, having had an eternity to do so. Infinite regress further contradicts itself because if there was an eternity of the past of cause and effects, you should have never existed, because a past eternity would go on for eternity never reaching this point now today.

Therefore, it stands to reason that nature needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, being uncreated that we can call the uncreated Creator that always existed.

And since the uncreated Creator can't be less than us, it must have a mind for that which is less than a mind can't cause a mind. A mind is needed to create a mind--with self-awareness and God-consciousness. And we are personal so the uncreated Creator must be personal for the impersonal can't cause the personal. And as we are accessible so is the uncreated Creator must be accessible as His standards cannot be below our own. There are only 3 faiths in the world that are accessible with enough adherents to span the globe and not hidden from plain view or difficult to access: Christianity, Islam and Hinduism.

But Hinduism is false, because that would be silly for you to come back as a chicken if you were a bad human and never effectively deals with sin by receiving endless chances. And the god of Hinduism, Brahma, is considered impersonal it is said which is below our nature of being personal. Islam is false because it has no evidence six centuries later to claim Jesus never even went to the cross, contrary to the scores of evidence, Jesus died on the cross as the most documented person in antiquity who had more sources written about Him than any ten figures combined from antiquity within 150 years of their deaths.

Without knowing anything else, we know, therefore, Christianity must be true. But the proof for Christianity (the 66 books of the Bible proves itself to be true) is the resurrection of Jesus proving He is God as only God can resurrect Himself. Since there is no naturalistic explanation to account for the multiple eyewitness testimony of the Apostles in various group settings, therefore, it must be true they were with Jesus for 40 days after resurrection. Group hallucinations are medically impossible. People don't willingly die for what they know is a lie. The swoon theory wouldn't convince anyone Jesus is the risen Lord. The only plausible explanation is Jesus is the 2nd Person of the Trinity.

I also believe God is infinitely greater than us so no amount of work or self-improvement can bridge the gap between us and God. We will always fall short and never fully satisfy God's heart. Islam and Hinduism follow this works based faith scheme of self-improvement, and they can never sure if they are saved. Only in Christianity do you find God personally enters His creation to save us when we can't save ourselves, by taking upon Himself the sins of the world to forgive any who would receive Him to be saved and receive eternal life. Instead of us working our way up to God, God condescends Himself for our benefit and pays the penalty in our stead. That is the greatest love ever known!

I just wanted you to know why I believe what I believe, for I don't know how to overturn this evidence, thus, locked into my faith as a Christian for that is the God I gave my life to be kept when I certainly couldn't keep myself saved. God draws all, but sadly many "draw back unto perdition" (Heb. 10.39). "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (John 10.28). I would only ask that you hold yourself to the highest standard of evidence I have provided here. Don't accept anything less.

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20-12-2013, 06:26 AM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
When I can replace the word god with pink unicorn and your argument still "works" the same as it did before, then you really don't have an argument do you ?

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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20-12-2013, 06:33 AM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(20-12-2013 04:17 AM)morondog Wrote:  Reltzik created us! It all makes sense now!

You, maybe. My Gwynnies created me. I Heart my Gwynnies. Big Grin

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20-12-2013, 06:34 AM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(19-12-2013 10:45 PM)savedwheat Wrote:  
(19-12-2013 10:44 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  The two rules of atheism.

Rule 1. There is no God
Rule 2. If God exists, I hate Him
Delusion is a free choice.

Two rules of a-santaclaus-ism

1. I believe there is no santa claus
2. If santa claus exists, I hate Him

Why do you hate santa so much?

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20-12-2013, 06:37 AM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(19-12-2013 11:03 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(19-12-2013 10:14 PM)savedwheat Wrote:  I just wanted you to know what I believe, why I believe it and why I can't change what I believe, because the evidence is too substantial and powerful.

For me there is no debate between atheism and theism, because I know the universe can't come from nothing--that which does not exist--for that which does not exist can't cause anything as it does not exist. So the universe has to come from something.

But what is that something? For starters, that something can't be an infinite regress of cause and effects, because if there was an infinite regress of cause and effects in nature, you would have had an eternity to come into being before now, so you should have already happened, having had an eternity to do so. Infinite regress further contradicts itself because if there was an eternity of the past of cause and effects, you should have never existed, because a past eternity would go on for eternity never reaching this point now today.

Therefore, it stands to reason that nature needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, being uncreated that we can call the uncreated Creator that always existed.

And since the uncreated Creator can't be less than us, it must have a mind for that which is less than a mind can't cause a mind. A mind is needed to create a mind--with self-awareness and God-consciousness. And we are personal so the uncreated Creator must be personal for the impersonal can't cause the personal. And as we are accessible so is the uncreated Creator must be accessible as His standards cannot be below our own. There are only 3 faiths in the world that are accessible with enough adherents to span the globe and not hidden from plain view or difficult to access: Christianity, Islam and Hinduism.

But Hinduism is false, because that would be silly for you to come back as a chicken if you were a bad human and never effectively deals with sin by receiving endless chances. And the god of Hinduism, Brahma, is considered impersonal it is said which is below our nature of being personal. Islam is false because it has no evidence six centuries later to claim Jesus never even went to the cross, contrary to the scores of evidence, Jesus died on the cross as the most documented person in antiquity who had more sources written about Him than any ten figures combined from antiquity within 150 years of their deaths.

Without knowing anything else, we know, therefore, Christianity must be true. But the proof for Christianity (the 66 books of the Bible proves itself to be true) is the resurrection of Jesus proving He is God as only God can resurrect Himself. Since there is no naturalistic explanation to account for the multiple eyewitness testimony of the Apostles in various group settings, therefore, it must be true they were with Jesus for 40 days after resurrection. Group hallucinations are medically impossible. People don't willingly die for what they know is a lie. The swoon theory wouldn't convince anyone Jesus is the risen Lord. The only plausible explanation is Jesus is the 2nd Person of the Trinity.

I also believe God is infinitely greater than us so no amount of work or self-improvement can bridge the gap between us and God. We will always fall short and never fully satisfy God's heart. Islam and Hinduism follow this works based faith scheme of self-improvement, and they can never sure if they are saved. Only in Christianity do you find God personally enters His creation to save us when we can't save ourselves, by taking upon Himself the sins of the world to forgive any who would receive Him to be saved and receive eternal life. Instead of us working our way up to God, God condescends Himself for our benefit and pays the penalty in our stead. That is the greatest love ever known!

I just wanted you to know why I believe what I believe, for I don't know how to overturn this evidence, thus, locked into my faith as a Christian for that is the God I gave my life to be kept when I certainly couldn't keep myself saved. God draws all, but sadly many "draw back unto perdition" (Heb. 10.39). "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (John 10.28). I would only ask that you hold yourself to the highest standard of evidence I have provided here. Don't accept anything less.

Praise the Lord!

Wrong savedchaff. So many lame old fallacies in one place. You should get an award. What are you ? Like 12 ?
An omnipotent creator could have created a race of robot universe creators, who were divinely endowed with the power to create universes.
Science has proven that what appears to be logical to human brains is not necessarily the way the universe works, (Relativity, Uncertainty etc), so there goes your "can't come from nothing" bullshit. As meaningless as "infinite regress", is "action" in a non-temporal dimension. Your deity can't "act" "before" she created time, as that is meaningless. There goes the creation bullshit. Minds need time, and structure to operate. (Obviously you have NO background in science), There is NO mind without a brain, and YOU have no proof there is one. You can CLAIM there is one, but you no evidence for one. Wishful thinking. An "uncreated creator" has to "exist". That means from eternity, non-existence ALSO exists, and your deity cannot BOTH participate, of necessity in (only 1/2) of Reality, AND be it's creator.
All your personal assertions have no reasoned evidence. A "person" is limited to ONE "personality", therefore not infinite. There goes THAT BS. (It's anthropomorphic projection). Christianity is entirely built on the BS of "salvation" which any scholar of Hebrew culture knows is utter crap. Saul of Tarsus made it up. The resurrection never happened, and there is no proof it did. In fact, it's obvious from the gospels it didn't happen, (torn temple curtain, other zombies rose, split rocks, earthquake that never happened). In fact Jesus probably never even existed. Muslims died by flying planes into towers, Were THEY right ? Did their deaths prove THEM right ?

Praise the lard.

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20-12-2013, 06:42 AM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
Someone needs to make them-self feel special.

Bury me with my guns on, so when I reach the other side - I can show him what it feels like to die.
Bury me with my guns on, so when I'm cast out of the sky, I can shoot the devil right between the eyes.
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20-12-2013, 06:47 AM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(19-12-2013 11:06 PM)Anjele Wrote:  The exact same post in three different threads...that makes it all much more convincing. Dodgy

No, that would make it spam. Drinking Beverage

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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20-12-2013, 07:01 AM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(20-12-2013 06:26 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  When I can replace the word god with pink unicorn and your argument still "works" the same as it did before, then you really don't have an argument do you ?

This^

His arguments can be used to argue for just about anything, because none of his premises rely on evidence. Arguments that can be used to explain anything, explain nothing.

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20-12-2013, 07:07 AM
RE: Why Am I a Theist, not an Atheist, and Not Just Any Kind of Theist
(20-12-2013 02:47 AM)savedwheat Wrote:  
(20-12-2013 02:34 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  I am not prepared to rule out spontaneous generation, not without strong evidence against it and a more precise definition of terms.

We observe trillions of cause and effects in nature and no spontaneous generation of anything, for that which does not exist can't cause anything to exist. That which does not exist always does not exist, always and anon. This is the evidence. I can only go with the evidence, which is why I am speaking to you the way I am. These trillions of cause and effects are an overwhelming preponderance of evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. Think of yourself like a gambler who is rolling the dice and hoping to come up with a 1 in a 10 trillion sided die. Good luck with that. What you are engaging in is called false humility. If trillions of cause and effects and no hard evidence to the contrary is not good enough for you then nothing will be. That's why Hell is necessary for the obstinate and belligerent.

No, sorry, you are wrong. We see particles appear from nothing, we see atoms decay for no apparent reason.

Your common sense only applies in a narrow range of reality. Outside of that narrow range where it evolved, it can mislead you.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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