"Why Are You Atheists So In Favor Of Legalizing Gay Marriage?"
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11-01-2014, 07:02 PM (This post was last modified: 11-01-2014 07:06 PM by Stevil.)
RE: "Why Are You Atheists So In Favor Of Legalizing Gay Marriage?"
(11-01-2014 05:42 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  It has nothing to do with atheism per se , it's just that a lot of atheists are also humanists.
Of course , the fact that atheists don't see homosexuality as a sin also helps.
Atheism doesn't drive anything, it is merely a lack of belief in god/s.

This issue is more pertinent to governing of a society. In particular, giving the police force the obligation to use violent force on members of society.

I see many dangers regarding use of violent force. Because this is a dangerous course of action I will only support it if not using violent force is more dangerous than using it. For example, I do see the need to use force against people committing murder.

If we let gay consenting adults find love, express love and join in a union of love with the recognition, protection and benefits provided by secular marriage then I see no dangers to myself and society. Thus I see no reason to sanction use of force to stop them.

If a group in society uses force to oppress a minority group, doesn't it make sense for other members to support the oppressed against their oppressors? United we stand rather than divided we fall!

For religious folk, I have to ask.
Is it god's duty for moral judgement of others or is it yours?
Will god's judgment and justice be perfect? If so, where does your judgement and justice come into the picture?
If you a worried about the gays being punished (for their sins) then feel free to try other avenues to persuade (rather than force) gays not to get married.
If you are worried about yourself being punished by god because gays are getting married in your society then pray to your god to be merciful to the innocent.
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11-01-2014, 07:35 PM (This post was last modified: 11-01-2014 07:49 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: "Why Are You Atheists So In Favor Of Legalizing Gay Marriage?"
Why shouldn't they be as miserable as the rest of us? Tongue

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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11-01-2014, 08:04 PM
RE: "Why Are You Atheists So In Favor Of Legalizing Gay Marriage?"
It has a lot more to do with an atheist's (most, anyway) drive toward intellectual honesty and disdain for magical thinking, than atheism itself.


Why are religious fucktards so obsessed with gay marriage and preventing it? It's THEIR culture war (THEY even call it that), not ours.

Ask your co-worker why SHE is so obsessed with sexuality that she feels she has to strawman you, if she shouldn't be more concerned about her religion than about fighting and obsessing over gay marriage.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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11-01-2014, 08:34 PM
RE: "Why Are You Atheists So In Favor Of Legalizing Gay Marriage?"
Yeah it's the religious communities, especially Christians, that sign petitions and preach messages against gays and gay marriage. They are causing the issue. Most atheists happen to also be humanists and would of course be for equality for everyone.

I feel bad for you that you have a coworker like this. I've been fortunate to not have run into any Christians since moving away from my home town.
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11-01-2014, 11:16 PM
RE: "Why Are You Atheists So In Favor Of Legalizing Gay Marriage?"
Ask her why so many Fundamental Christians spend so much time obsessing over other men's asses. Speaking as a male, hetero atheist, about the only time I ever consider another man's ass is when some fundamentalist brings up the topic.
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12-01-2014, 12:50 AM
RE: "Why Are You Atheists So In Favor Of Legalizing Gay Marriage?"
I just love sin Evil_monster ...JK...

...
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12-01-2014, 01:18 AM
RE: "Why Are You Atheists So In Favor Of Legalizing Gay Marriage?"
To be honest though, I'm not pro gay marriage. I just don't care. But that's because I'm not pro marriage, straight or gay. But I'm also not anti marriage, and have no reason to make a distinction between gay or straight in that. As such, as far as I'm concerned, if you're straight, if your gay, and you want to get married have at it, what the shit do I care?

But I do care, and I actively defend the right of gays to get married. Something I otherwise should not have to care about, except for the fact that some, for some asinine reason would restrict this right to others, and that I am against. A lot of people already made most of the rest of the points I would have about it, and I agree. I am a humanist, and as a humanist I think gays should have equal rights, and as an atheist I can relate to being subjected by religious belief.

But I don't personally have a dog in this fight, so why am I so vocal about it with friends who can't understand why I care so much? For me I do still find it personal, as I think most humanist do. But for me there is more to it.

When my parents were born it was still illegal for them to marry. Think about that for a second. Within my own parent's life time it would have been illegally, in the United States, for them to be together, there by producing myself and my siblings. The reason being, because my father is black and my mother is white. That was illegal, and people would have trotted out any other bullshit from the bible they could find to defend "traditional" marriage, or just general bigotry and hatred. Fortunately, by the time my parents were prepared to marry, this was no longer an issue. But I've thought about that a lot growing up. It was actually illegal for my parents to be marred, simply because it made others, whom it did not effect, feel uncomfortable. Two people how loved each other, and for which exist no reasonable reason that they should not be together, but for the benefit of someone else's comfort, who does not, and will never know them, ...they should not be allowed. If following that law, I should never have been born, and that's the way people wanted it.

To me it's simple. If I would demand, and expect the same rights for my parents, or myself, how could I possibly justify remaining quite just because the same struggle is no longer my struggle? I can't...it's all our struggle because we are all human beings worthy of respect, and I refuse to leave our other fellow human beings behind simply because it "does not effect" me.

That's my answer to why I, myself, care.

...
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12-01-2014, 02:03 PM
RE: "Why Are You Atheists So In Favor Of Legalizing Gay Marriage?"
(11-01-2014 05:30 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  I was asked this question yesterday by a religious co-worker. She said "What does sexuality have anything to do with atheism? Shouldn't you be more concerned about atheism than about legalizing gay marriage?" I said that I feel that the biggest factors are from atheists being broken away from religious rules, and a mutual understanding of what it's like to be shunned for not sharing the beliefs of others.

By breaking away from religion, atheists are no longer saying that what is right and what is wrong is determined by the church, or holy books that contain ridiculous amounts of false information and contradictions. We're looking at a bigger picture. We're saying we don't give a damn what religion says - we can't go denying rights that other people have simply because their lifestyle doesn't agree with ours. Religious people are doing the same thing to us that they are doing to gays. They are saying that forcing their religious beliefs on us is right, and that denying gays their rights is right because anything that clashes with their beliefs is wrong.

Atheists know what it's like to be shunned for what they are. Atheists are arguably more hated in religious societies than gays. For a long time most gays were "closet homosexuals". There are also a lot of "closet atheists". I live in the U.S. and I have rarely come across people that are open atheists here, though when I do, I often hear them say "I was a closet atheist for a long time, but was afraid of the reaction I would get from friends and family."

I have noticed in my country that although gays still suffer hatred and discrimination, they have become far more accepted in society than they were in the past. Acceptance of atheism, however, is growing at a much smaller rate. Atheism tends to draw even more hate, because atheists are defying the very existence of a god. In the minds of many people, that's far worse than "living in sin". You're actually saying that their god doesn't exist! You're saying that what they claim as their source of morality is bullshit! It is the most unforgivable of sins. I'd be interested to hear what gays who are also atheists and came from religious families have to say as far as what caused a harsher reaction from their families.

what do you think about plural marriage? can we legalize it so Mormons can practice it again? or Muslims?

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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12-01-2014, 02:09 PM (This post was last modified: 12-01-2014 02:16 PM by Foxen.)
RE: "Why Are You Atheists So In Favor Of Legalizing Gay Marriage?"
(12-01-2014 02:03 PM)Alla Wrote:  what do you think about plural marriage? can we legalize it so Mormons can practice it again? or Muslims?

Polygamy is fine, so long as it is between consenting adults. The problem has primarily been older men wanting underage wives.
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12-01-2014, 02:31 PM
RE: "Why Are You Atheists So In Favor Of Legalizing Gay Marriage?"
CHRISTIANS If you're going to ignore the section of Leviticus that bans about tattoos, pork, shellfish, round haircuts, polyester and football(pig skin), how can you possibly turn around and quote Leviticus 18:22 ("You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.") as irrefutable law? No cherry picking.. ALL OR NOTHING. .
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