Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
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04-02-2013, 09:06 PM
Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
I believe many of us are people of compassion and all of us is for autonomy. But some of us want the right to die by suicide to have legal recognition, and societal acceptance of physician assisted suicide. Now the right to suicide proponents evoke the image of a person facing unendurable suffering who calmly and rationally decides death is better than life in such a state. I happen to know this depiction is a fact for many people. They argue that society should respect and defer to the freedom of choice such people exercise in asking to be killed. I agree with this, but have to pick a side so for the sake of having opposition I don't want it to be legalized Allowing people to be assisted in committing suicide to end their suffering would create a legal presumption of sanity.

Quote:presumption of sanity
Quick Reference





The legal presumption that every person charged with a criminal offence was sane (and therefore responsible in law) at the time he is alleged to have committed the crime. See insanity.

http://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1...3100344214

Allowing this to happen would prevent them receiving appropriate mental health treatment. Because only the insane get treated. There is a Star trek Voyager episode that deals with this very subject.

If this type of suicide legal, the presumption that people attempting suicide are deranged and mentally ill, a conclusion borne out by many studies and years of experience would be reversed. Just think, those seeking suicide would be legally entitled to
be left alone to do something irremediable, that has been based on a distorted assessment of their circumstances, without genuine help.
Quote:Conclusions
Physician education in depression recognition and treatment and restricting access to lethal methods reduce suicide rates. Other interventions need more evidence of efficacy. Ascertaining which components of suicide prevention
programs are effective in reducing rates of suicide and suicide attempt is essential in order to optimize use of limited resources.
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx...eid=201761


What is your opinion.?

Science investigates, religion interprets.

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04-02-2013, 09:31 PM (This post was last modified: 04-02-2013 09:40 PM by Zat.)
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
Euthanasia

I killed a child once:
its small, fragile body
convulsing, in helpless agony,
in the middle of the night.

It was the hardest
I ever had to do:
plastic bag over the head,
pillow over tiny body…

tears soaking my face,
resolute till the end,
until the struggle stopped
and, finally, she was dead.

It was ‘only’ a cat
but I loved it like a child,
loved it enough
to end its pointless suffering.

While most of us would
end the agony
of those we love,
and would want the help
when finally we'll need it --

our rulers say you can’t be
merciful to humans -
only to animals,…
they warn of abuse,
criminal negligence.

They fear exceptions,
they are afraid to think, to decide,
they feel safe with zero tolerance:
the hallmark of the craven
and the incompetent.
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04-02-2013, 10:36 PM
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
They already are required to have a Psych eval. If that proves they are not clinically depressed, and just want an end to toment THEY should be making that decision, not you for them. Criminal insanity is irrelevant, and has nothing to do with the topic. How many people have you seen imprisoned with a Neuro disorder, or termanally ill with bone cancer. I hope YOU have to suffer someday, and find out what they go through.

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Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

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04-02-2013, 10:49 PM
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
I think you first have to answer the question of what or whom gives you and I the right to deprive another person the choice of how to dispose of their property.
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04-02-2013, 11:02 PM
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
As someone who's watched people die from slow, humiliating deaths I'm all for assisted suicide (And I happen to live in the first state to legalize it).

Its very hard to actually be approved for it, probably too hard (imo) so.... its not like people are just going to be offing themselves left and right.

"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." Soren Kierkegaard
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05-02-2013, 04:39 AM
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
(04-02-2013 09:31 PM)Zat Wrote:  Euthanasia

I killed a child once:
its small, fragile body
convulsing, in helpless agony,
in the middle of the night.

It was the hardest
I ever had to do:
plastic bag over the head,
pillow over tiny body…

tears soaking my face,
resolute till the end,
until the struggle stopped
and, finally, she was dead.

It was ‘only’ a cat
but I loved it like a child,
loved it enough
to end its pointless suffering.

While most of us would
end the agony
of those we love,
and would want the help
when finally we'll need it --

our rulers say you can’t be
merciful to humans -
only to animals,…
they warn of abuse,
criminal negligence.

They fear exceptions,
they are afraid to think, to decide,
they feel safe with zero tolerance:
the hallmark of the craven
and the incompetent.

Suffering is a subjective feeling that we cannot measure objectively,whether in adults or in infants. But we accept the fact that adults can indicate when their suffering is unbearable. Infants cannot express their feelings through speech. In spite of it's laws, euthanasia has been a common practice in the Netherlands since 1973.

It's guideline states:

Quote:The official guidelines require that the patient's decision is voluntary, well considered and persistent, in the presence of unbearable pain without hope of improvement. The decision should be made by more than one doctor, and the doctor and patient should agree that euthanasia is the only reasonable option.
http://www.catholiceducation.org/article...u0021.html

An infant or child cannot make such a decision.

Science investigates, religion interprets.

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05-02-2013, 04:55 AM
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
(04-02-2013 10:36 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  They already are required to have a Psych eval. If that proves they are not clinically depressed, and just want an end to toment THEY should be making that decision, not you for them.
You are forgetting about the presumption of sanity that we have to face. The status quo don't look at suicide as being a sane act. That is a fact.

Quote:Criminal insanity is irrelevant, and has nothing to do with the topic
Quil vs. Koppell
The U.S. District Court, S.D. New York upheld the constitutionality of a
statute
Quote:criminalizing physician-assisted suicide. The claimants argued
that the statute violated the due process and equal protection clauses
of the Fourteenth Amendment for both the patients and the physicians.
They claimed that competent, terminally-ill persons have a
constitutional right to take their own lives, and that enabling
physicians have a corresponding protection under the constitution.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11648283

Now what was that you said again?

Quote:.
How many people have you seen imprisoned with a Neuro disorder, or
termanally ill with bone cancer.
Now this has nothing to do with the topic. What I've seen is not the debate, now is it?
Quote:I hope YOU have to suffer someday, and
find out what they go through
In a debate, you attack the argument, not the person.

Science investigates, religion interprets.

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05-02-2013, 05:04 AM
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
(04-02-2013 10:49 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  I think you first have to answer the question of what or whom gives you and I the right to deprive another person the choice of how to dispose of their property.
Our laws governing who is sane and who isn't. Suicide is not a sane act, if so, can you think of anything to end your life over right at this moment? I found a blog from an average Joe talking about what I've said.


Quote:No matter how bad things are, committing suicide hurts so many more
people. I hate to say this publicly, but to me, it seems like a selfish
act. Of course, I cannot comprehend how bad life is for people who
think about doing such acts - so me saying that, is easy for me to say
and does unjust to those who suffer with these conditions (if it is a
condition).


I just wonder, do sane people commit suicide?
http://www.cartoonbarry.com/2009/11/do_s...icide.html

Sane people don't commit suicide.

Science investigates, religion interprets.

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05-02-2013, 05:06 AM
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
I think suicidees should by punished for their crime.

All successful suicide attempts should carry a minimum of life imprisonment.


And Bucky... tut tut, you should know better.

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05-02-2013, 05:11 AM
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
(04-02-2013 11:02 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  As someone who's watched people die from slow, humiliating deaths I'm all for assisted suicide (And I happen to live in the first state to legalize it).

Its very hard to actually be approved for it, probably too hard (imo)
You must be up around the PNW, like Oregon.

Quote: so.... its not like people are just going to be offing themselves left and right.
Suicide rates by state
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa/suicide

These are the rate per 100,000.

Science investigates, religion interprets.

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