Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
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05-02-2013, 05:12 AM
AW: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
People who attempt to kill themselves should receive the death penalty. Rolleyes

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05-02-2013, 06:04 AM
RE: AW: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
(05-02-2013 05:12 AM)Vosur Wrote:  People who attempt to kill themselves should receive the death penalty. Rolleyes
That's a little harsh don't you think? You are a cruel one.. Dodgy

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05-02-2013, 06:22 AM
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
Well, there is doctor assisted suicide and there is the right to die.
In one, a physician administers the lethal drug.
In the other, a physician prescribes the lethal drug and the patient will do as s/he will.
The second option is already legal in some places.
The prerequisites are:
1.The patient is incurably ill and the disease will end in death.
2.The patient is mentally sane.
As it turns out, many people cherish having the option, but only a fraction of those who receive the prescription ever use it.
You are assuming that people who want to exit a body that inflicts great suffering are mentally unstable.
That is definitely not the case and it has been proven many times over.
Your argument is mute from the start. If you want to argue against the right to die, you're going to have to find another reason.

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05-02-2013, 07:10 AM
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
(05-02-2013 05:04 AM)Scientia Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 10:49 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  I think you first have to answer the question of what or whom gives you and I the right to deprive another person the choice of how to dispose of their property.
Our laws governing who is sane and who isn't. Suicide is not a sane act, if so, can you think of anything to end your life over right at this moment? I found a blog from an average Joe talking about what I've said.


Quote:No matter how bad things are, committing suicide hurts so many more
people. I hate to say this publicly, but to me, it seems like a selfish
act. Of course, I cannot comprehend how bad life is for people who
think about doing such acts - so me saying that, is easy for me to say
and does unjust to those who suffer with these conditions (if it is a
condition).


I just wonder, do sane people commit suicide?
http://www.cartoonbarry.com/2009/11/do_s...icide.html

Sane people don't commit suicide.
This is precisely where you are wrong. The sanest choice in a given situation may in fact be suicide.

I have already stated elsewhere that if my life becomes unbearable due to the effects of a terminal disease, I will end my life.

By your unsupported opinion, I am insane.

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05-02-2013, 07:16 AM (This post was last modified: 05-02-2013 07:20 AM by Scientia.)
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
(05-02-2013 06:22 AM)Dom Wrote:  Well, there is doctor assisted suicide and there is the right to die.
In one, a physician administers the lethal drug.
In the other, a physician prescribes the lethal drug and the patient will do as s/he will.
The second option is already legal in some places.
The prerequisites are:
1.The patient is incurably ill and the disease will end in death.
2.The patient is mentally sane.

There is a distinction here, killing and allowing to die has a difference of physical causality and moral culpability.For example, on the one hand, to bring the life of another to an end by an injection is to directly kill the other person, our action is the physical cause of death. On the other hand, to allow someone to die from a disease we cannot cure, and that we did not cause; is to permit the disease to act as the cause of death.




Quote:You are assuming that people who want to exit a body that inflicts great suffering are mentally unstable.
Years of study has made this a fact.

Quote:That is definitely not the case and it has been proven many times over.
I agree, but the exceptions don't make the rule. How many time have you heard the word insane, or more commonly the word "crazy" when some one has taken their life. Like jumping off a building or a bridge. And speaking of bridges, many bridges are being built with anti suicide fences. Why is that if this is considered a cane act?
Quote:Your
argument is mute from the start. If you want to argue against the right
to die, you're going to have to find another reason.
How is it mute when people are taking their cases to court? How is it mute to you have advocates pushing for it? And my reason stands, show me where it is flawed. Because the courts are upholding it.

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05-02-2013, 07:41 AM
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
(05-02-2013 07:10 AM)Chas Wrote:  This is precisely where you are wrong. The sanest choice in a given situation may in fact be suicide.

I have already stated elsewhere that if my life becomes unbearable due to the effects of a terminal disease, I will end my life.

By your unsupported opinion, I am insane.
As I stated before, the exception doesn't make the rule. Many decades of study have shown that people who commit suicide suffer from some type of mental defect. I agree, that you feel, and know yourself as being sane. But the fact still remain that it is seen as insanity. Also, no one can stop anybody from killing themselves. In the Navy I've seen only 3 people that was serious about it. The others just wanted attention. All we knew of their decision to kill themselves was when they were found.

And it's not unsupported, but here is some support here. If this was a sane act, why is there treatment to try and prevet it?
Quote:The aims of this pilot study are to conduct a preliminary investigation
of the outcomes and sustainability of a Cognitive Therapy for the
prevention of suicide
http://www.med.upenn.edu/suicide/research.html
Quote:Developing population risk reduction approaches
for suicide, through prevention of its precursors in communities, could
result in truly innovative (and potentially effective) programs for
suicide prevention
http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/psychiatry/csps/
Also, you are over looking the fact that you declining health effects your mental state.

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05-02-2013, 07:55 AM (This post was last modified: 05-02-2013 07:59 AM by Chaos.)
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized







"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
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05-02-2013, 07:56 AM (This post was last modified: 05-02-2013 08:19 AM by Zat.)
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
...
On another forum, on the same topic, I was asked:

Quote:How do we know when it's acceptable, and how do we know when to try to prevent someone from killing himself?
...
The same way we deal with every questionable case: investigate on a one-by-one basis and prosecute if there is evidence of wrongdoing. As I said in the poem: "zero tolerance is the hallmark of the craven and the incompetent."

I know, "zero tolerance" is convenient for our politicians (they don't have to think, decide and maybe take a risk at the next election), but look at the price people have to pay for this cowardice and incompetence:

From Wikipedia:


=========================================

"Alzheimer's disease and other forms of dementia are cruel diseases that progress over time and eventually will lead to death.

Alzheimer's disease is the seventh leading cause of death in the United States.


Late-Stage Dementia Symptoms

A person with dementia may follow a fairly predictable pattern of decline through the seven stages of dementia. Once dementia has progressed to late-stage, death can generally be expected in 6 months to 1 year.

Symptoms of late-stage dementia include:
    Increased incidence of infections, such as urinary tract infections or pneumonia
    Impaired motor functions including difficulty walking and moving, causing the individual to be bed- or chair-bound
    Incontinence of bowel and bladder leading to full dependence on others for toileting and hygiene
    Loss of the ability to communicate through words
    Difficulty swallowing and eating, leading to weight loss and aspiration pneumonia
    Loss of facial expression, including the ability to smile.
    Eventual inability to sit up or hold up one's head without assistance.

Death from Late-Stage Dementia

Many individuals with late-stage dementia die of a medical complication, such as pneumonia or another infection.
However, dementia itself can be fatal. General wasting, malnutrition, and dehydration are real risks when an individual with dementia can no longer eat safely and move independently."

=========================================

Would you like to live like this for 6 months to a year?

I know I would not. And, if it was my wife, I would do everything to help her get over this needless suffering -- we have a mutual understanding in this regard.

We would probably travel to Switzerland (a civilized country) where Euthanasia is legal, even for foreigners.
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05-02-2013, 08:08 AM
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
I have often felt that making someone continue living can sometimes be more cruel than letting die or hastening death. It is not an easy decision but I can't imagine anyone coming to it lightly.
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05-02-2013, 08:13 AM
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
(05-02-2013 07:41 AM)Scientia Wrote:  
(05-02-2013 07:10 AM)Chas Wrote:  This is precisely where you are wrong. The sanest choice in a given situation may in fact be suicide.

I have already stated elsewhere that if my life becomes unbearable due to the effects of a terminal disease, I will end my life.

By your unsupported opinion, I am insane.
As I stated before, the exception doesn't make the rule.

What does that even mean?

Quote:Many decades of study have shown that people who commit suicide suffer from some type of mental defect.

But we are talking only about one specific kind of suicide here, so those studies are meaningless in this context.

Quote:I agree, that you feel, and know yourself as being sane. But the fact still remain that it is seen as insanity. Also, no one can stop anybody from killing themselves. In the Navy I've seen only 3 people that was serious about it. The others just wanted attention. All we knew of their decision to kill themselves was when they were found.

And it's not unsupported, but here is some support here. If this was a sane act, why is there treatment to try and prevet it?
Quote:The aims of this pilot study are to conduct a preliminary investigation
of the outcomes and sustainability of a Cognitive Therapy for the
prevention of suicide
http://www.med.upenn.edu/suicide/research.html
Quote:Developing population risk reduction approaches
for suicide, through prevention of its precursors in communities, could
result in truly innovative (and potentially effective) programs for
suicide prevention
http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/psychiatry/csps/
Also, you are over looking the fact that you declining health effects your mental state.

Again, the studies are not applicable. Find a study about end-of-life decisions and then we can talk.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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