Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
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07-02-2013, 05:16 AM
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
(07-02-2013 04:50 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(07-02-2013 04:45 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  This thread makes me want to off myself.
Well, what doesn't? [Image: suicide_fool-edit.gif]

Post-It notes.

I'm...not really sure why. Consider

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07-02-2013, 06:22 AM
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
If they can kill people in Texas for criminal offence, legal mistake and outright court murder, then euthanasia is in order as well. Why do we apply it to people who quite vehemently don't want it, yet can't give it to those who need it and want it?

In questions of state regulations I remember my lessons of Libertarianism. We have a free market capitalism. On free market we must do a cost-benefit analysis of all we do. We are allowed to search for the best deal we can get. We are not obliged to take any deal, we can simply move on. We can even give up a contract, under some conditions.
So why are we forced to endure this kind of contract? As rational people know, we did not choose the life, our parents did this to us. And we got our trial period, why can't we have decision over the life as well?
I don't say ending one's life is a wise choice, that entirely depends on the individual situation. So only the individual can make such a decision. I don't think making euthanasia legal would have any great consequence on society, just as legalizing drugs won't make everyone addicts. Most of the time, legalizing something will just increase tourism.

If someone's incapable of making a decision to die or not die (and can't get better), he should be just pumped with morphium until he eventually dies or the relatives decide to take him back for some unknown reason. I think it's called palliative care. What a good use for drugs. If there wasn't war on drugs and war on death, this policy would be much cheaper.

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07-02-2013, 08:03 AM
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
(07-02-2013 03:20 AM)Scientia Wrote:  I feel taking human life should be a last resort, because until our society has given appropriate attention to pain control, hospice care, and advance directive, we will not have met the criteria of last resort with respect to legalized euthanasia.


It's not the physician's decision. It's the patient's right to decide what they want. Physicians just happen to have the access to certain drugs that some patients prefer to use instead of go-bags.
The physician is merely a tool for the patient. The physician has no right to go against a patient's will - ever.

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07-02-2013, 11:54 AM
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
"So why did you bring the subject up?"

I didn't. You opened a political discussion in the philosophy section of this forum. I answered your question from a philosophical perspective and you insist upon arguing from the political position that assumes, a priori, some humans have the right choose what other humans do with their property.

Since you either don't understand the difference or, you refuse to acknowledge it, I'll say this.... Even if a perfectly healthy individual with a happy family and a double plus good job decides to take his own life, your prescribed reaction of stopping him from doing so under the threat of murder, is infinitely more immoral, arrogant and selfish than his.
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07-02-2013, 06:17 PM
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
(07-02-2013 06:22 AM)Luminon Wrote:  If they can kill people in Texas for criminal offence, legal mistake and
outright court murder, then euthanasia is in order as well. Why do we
apply it to people who quite vehemently don't want it, yet can't give it
to those who need it and want it?
It's irrelevant, and you are mixing apples and oranges. But Ill show you where your logic is flawed.

Take the Belt Way sniper for example, he clearly did it, admitted it, and was found guilty. He died by state law. He was aware of what he was doing, he was able to speak for himself. Now take a infant, that can't speak for themselves, yet another person is making a decision to end their life for them. Infants with disabilities grow up to be
children, and then adults with disabilities. As an adult, this same person will likely have a much different view of his quality of life than his parent might have had based on the doctor's predictions at the time of birth.




Quote:In questions of state regulations I remember my lessons of
Libertarianism. We have a free market capitalism. On free market we must
do a cost-benefit analysis of all we do. We are allowed to search for
the best deal we can get. We are not obliged to take any deal, we can
simply move on. We can even give up a contract, under some conditions. So
why are we forced to endure this kind of contract? As rational people
know, we did not choose the life, our parents did this to us. And we got
our trial period, why can't we have decision over the life as well?
Has nothing to do with the topic.


Quote:I
don't say ending one's life is a wise choice, that entirely depends on
the individual situation. So only the individual can make such a
decision. I don't think making euthanasia legal would have any great
consequence on society, just as legalizing drugs won't make everyone
addicts. Most of the time, legalizing something will just increase
tourism.
I gave you a situation where one side don't have any say at all, based on this, should their life be taken based on someone else opinion?


Quote:If someone's incapable of making a decision to die or
not die (and can't get better), he should be just pumped with morphium
until he eventually dies or the relatives decide to take him back for
some unknown reason. I think it's called palliative care. What a good
use for drugs. If there wasn't war on drugs and war on death, this
policy would be much cheaper.
What if it takes a person years to die from an illness, should they still be pumped with morphine until they die?

Science investigates, religion interprets.

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07-02-2013, 06:20 PM
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
(07-02-2013 08:03 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(07-02-2013 03:20 AM)Scientia Wrote:  I feel taking human life should be a last resort, because until our society has given appropriate attention to pain control, hospice care, and advance directive, we will not have met the criteria of last resort with respect to legalized euthanasia.


It's not the physician's decision. It's the patient's right to decide what they want. Physicians just happen to have the access to certain drugs that some patients prefer to use instead of go-bags.
The physician is merely a tool for the patient. The physician has no right to go against a patient's will - ever.
Why are you assuming that every person is in a state of being able to respond?

Science investigates, religion interprets.

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07-02-2013, 06:27 PM
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
(07-02-2013 06:20 PM)Scientia Wrote:  
(07-02-2013 08:03 AM)Dom Wrote:  It's not the physician's decision. It's the patient's right to decide what they want. Physicians just happen to have the access to certain drugs that some patients prefer to use instead of go-bags.
The physician is merely a tool for the patient. The physician has no right to go against a patient's will - ever.
Why are you assuming that every person is in a state of being able to respond?
If they cannot express themselves anymore, and they do not have previously written and witnessed statements clarifying their wishes, and they did not designate a person to make the decision for them, then nothing can be done. Same as is done all the time with living wills and DNRs.

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07-02-2013, 06:30 PM
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
(07-02-2013 11:54 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  "So why did you bring the subject up?"

Lets not play this game, you know what I'm talking about. You asked me "what gives me the right". This has nothing to do with the topic.


Quote:I didn't. You opened a political discussion in the philosophy section of
this forum. I answered your question from a philosophical perspective
and you insist upon arguing from the political position that assumes, a
priori, some humans have the right choose what other humans do with
their property.
Asking me "what give me the right" is not an answer to the topic. You are attacking me instead of the argument.


Quote:Since you either don't understand the difference
or, you refuse to acknowledge it, I'll say this.... Even if a perfectly
healthy individual with a happy family and a double plus good job
decides to take his own life, your prescribed reaction of stopping him
from doing so under the threat of murder, is infinitely more immoral,
arrogant and selfish than his.
It's obvious you don't understand because you keep using ad-hominem attacks, and straw man argument instead of addressing the topic.

Science investigates, religion interprets.

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07-02-2013, 06:34 PM
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
(07-02-2013 06:17 PM)Scientia Wrote:  
(07-02-2013 06:22 AM)Luminon Wrote:  If they can kill people in Texas for criminal offence, legal mistake and
outright court murder, then euthanasia is in order as well. Why do we
apply it to people who quite vehemently don't want it, yet can't give it
to those who need it and want it?
It's irrelevant, and you are mixing apples and oranges. But Ill show you where your logic is flawed.

Take the Belt Way sniper for example, he clearly did it, admitted it, and was found guilty. He died by state law. He was aware of what he was doing, he was able to speak for himself. Now take a infant, that can't speak for themselves, yet another person is making a decision to end their life for them. Infants with disabilities grow up to be
children, and then adults with disabilities. As an adult, this same person will likely have a much different view of his quality of life than his parent might have had based on the doctor's predictions at the time of birth.




Quote:In questions of state regulations I remember my lessons of
Libertarianism. We have a free market capitalism. On free market we must
do a cost-benefit analysis of all we do. We are allowed to search for
the best deal we can get. We are not obliged to take any deal, we can
simply move on. We can even give up a contract, under some conditions. So
why are we forced to endure this kind of contract? As rational people
know, we did not choose the life, our parents did this to us. And we got
our trial period, why can't we have decision over the life as well?
Has nothing to do with the topic.


Quote:I
don't say ending one's life is a wise choice, that entirely depends on
the individual situation. So only the individual can make such a
decision. I don't think making euthanasia legal would have any great
consequence on society, just as legalizing drugs won't make everyone
addicts. Most of the time, legalizing something will just increase
tourism.
I gave you a situation where one side don't have any say at all, based on this, should their life be taken based on someone else opinion?


Quote:If someone's incapable of making a decision to die or
not die (and can't get better), he should be just pumped with morphium
until he eventually dies or the relatives decide to take him back for
some unknown reason. I think it's called palliative care. What a good
use for drugs. If there wasn't war on drugs and war on death, this
policy would be much cheaper.
What if it takes a person years to die from an illness, should they still be pumped with morphine until they die?


You keep changing the playing field. You asked about assisted suicide, then you're on about euthenasia, mental illness, suicide in general.

Would you like to get back to your original question or have you seen that you don't have a rational position there?

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-02-2013, 07:29 PM
RE: Why Assisted suicide should not be legalized
What ad homs and what straw man?

Maybe this metaphor will help....

Neal: Hey Bob, I'm worried about lung cancer so I'm thinking about switching cigarettes. What brand do you recommend?

Bob: If you're worried about lung cancer you should quit smoking altogether.

Neal: I don't care about all that, I just wanna know what brand you think I should smoke.

Bob: Uh... no brand at all. It's smoking that causes lung cancer, not the brand of cigarettes you smoke.

Neal: Well, if all you're gonna do is change the subject and attack me, then fuck you!

Bob: Huh?
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