Why Big Brother is inevitable
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27-07-2013, 04:15 AM
Why Big Brother is inevitable
I have friends who tell me we have a right to bear arms. I agree. But I don't think that right is absolute. I don't care if you own a musket, rifle, shot gun, or canon for that matter. However I don't think you should be allowed to own a 20 megaton thermal nuclear weapon. Between nuclear bomb and musket there is a fine line which on one side exists the weapons a common person can arm himself with, and on the other a common person should be prohibited from arming themselves with. Where that line is, I'm not quite sure....I just know it exists.

What about the right to privacy? I don't think its absolute either. I don't like the ideal of the NSA monitoring all my communications and the communications of every other American. But that attitude could easily change.

Suppose a nuclear warhead went missing from the United States arsenal? Would you want the NSA monitoring everyone's communication in an attempt to locate it? Privacy rights be damned we gotta find that thing before some ding danged physco destroys a city.

Technology is allowing a person to do more things....including slaughtering more people if they wanted too. When the Constitution was written, some whack job could probably kill only one person, maybe two, with his musket before a crowd could subdue him. Now technology allows a person to kill tens, hundreds, or thousands....and the evil doer doesn't even need a gun(fly a plane into a building for instance).

Suppose in 100 years technology allowed an intelligent and cunning person to kill millions of people...like if they had a 20 megaton thermal nuclear weapon. If you lived in such a situation would you want everyone's actions monitored?

Suppose in 1000 years technology allows an intelligent and cunning person to destroy the universe. If you lived in such a situation would you want everyone's actions monitored? I think I would.

Now I can't be certain that technology will continue to improve the efficiency at which a single man can slaughter other men....but I would bet everything I own that it will. With that in mind, I just can't see how we can avoid Big Brother.
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27-07-2013, 04:56 AM
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
(27-07-2013 04:15 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  What about the right to privacy? I don't think its absolute either. I don't like the ideal of the NSA monitoring all my communications and the communications of every other American. But that attitude could easily change.

Suppose a nuclear warhead went missing from the United States arsenal? Would you want the NSA monitoring everyone's communication in an attempt to locate it? Privacy rights be damned we gotta find that thing before some ding danged physco destroys a city.

Technology is allowing a person to do more things....including slaughtering more people if they wanted too. When the Constitution was written, some whack job could probably kill only one person, maybe two, with his musket before a crowd could subdue him. Now technology allows a person to kill tens, hundreds, or thousands....and the evil doer doesn't even need a gun(fly a plane into a building for instance).

Suppose in 100 years technology allowed an intelligent and cunning person to kill millions of people...like if they had a 20 megaton thermal nuclear weapon. If you lived in such a situation would you want everyone's actions monitored?

Suppose in 1000 years technology allows an intelligent and cunning person to destroy the universe. If you lived in such a situation would you want everyone's actions monitored? I think I would.

Now I can't be certain that technology will continue to improve the efficiency at which a single man can slaughter other men....but I would bet everything I own that it will. With that in mind, I just can't see how we can avoid Big Brother.

I agree with this. Where technology is headed it is getting easier by the day to cause mass genocide.

Future plausible threats would include engineered viruses and other pathogens.

DNA writing is getting easier all the time. Soon any college kid will be able to tinker with genomes and make them do anything they wish, all with a little box the size of an inkjet printer.

The only way I see to protect against this is by treading on peoples right to privacy. When it comes to one crazy person having the power to kill thousands or millions then I guess privacy will lose.

Another thing that might have to happen - any political leader has monitoring and public scrutiny around the clock. Any decisions made are recorded around the clock. How quickly would corruption be stamped out if it was no longer possible to make backroom deals?

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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27-07-2013, 05:51 AM
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
What are you high? Why do you portray this as some profound apocalyptic revelation? Scientific and technological advances have always possessed a morally ambivalent quality. Studying atomic physics produced both the atomic bomb and nuclear energy. Studying microscopic life gave birth to germ theory, but also bio-chemical warfare. The radio improved tactical communications for war thereby increasing the effectiveness of soldiers, but it also gave us easy globalization and paved the way for cyber technology.

It is just like biological evolution. Every appendage, no matter how beneficial, still presents weaknesses too. Nothing is ever entirely good or entirely bad.

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27-07-2013, 05:56 AM
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
(27-07-2013 04:15 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Suppose in 1000 years technology allows an intelligent and cunning person to destroy the universe.

Sounds like the plot to Despicable Me 3.

Don't really know what to think of the future. We all gonna die eventually, by natural causes or a nuclear bomb.



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27-07-2013, 08:04 AM
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
Makes me glad I am not young.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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27-07-2013, 08:23 AM
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
(27-07-2013 08:04 AM)Dom Wrote:  Makes me glad I am not young.

You have faced the same exact dilemmas throughout your life. Nothing has changed. Drinking Beverage

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27-07-2013, 08:27 AM
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
(27-07-2013 08:23 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(27-07-2013 08:04 AM)Dom Wrote:  Makes me glad I am not young.

You have faced the same exact dilemmas throughout your life. Nothing has changed. Drinking Beverage




(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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27-07-2013, 08:27 AM
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
(27-07-2013 05:51 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  What are you high? Why do you portray this as some profound apocalyptic revelation? Scientific and technological advances have always possessed a morally ambivalent quality. Studying atomic physics produced both the atomic bomb and nuclear energy. Studying microscopic life gave birth to germ theory, but also bio-chemical warfare. The radio improved tactical communications for war thereby increasing the effectiveness of soldiers, but it also gave us easy globalization and paved the way for cyber technology.

It is just like biological evolution. Every appendage, no matter how beneficial, still presents weaknesses too. Nothing is ever entirely good or entirely bad.

Are you high?

No, nuclear weapons are out of the reach of one crazy man. North Korea's leader alone wouldn't be able to build one. The requirements for building one... buy some uranium at a corner shop. Some caesium for part of the fuse. Facilities to accurately machine the fissile material and shape the charges. Don't think that will be easy for one man any time soon.

Biological weapons, once dna writing becomes easy and cheap then it will be in the reach of one crazy person. The technology has gotten cheaper at a rate faster than Moore's law.

The dna alphabet requires four bottles of chemicals. You can go and buy them right now yourself. I can even point you to a company that will print any sequence for you. They charge by the kilobase. They have a limit to the size but they can even splice it into a lab mouse for you or some other species like yeast. This technology is getting so good that soon people will do this in their own garage.

What I do see from day to day is a creeping tide of information gathering. The surveilance state is on it's way. For good or for bad.

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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27-07-2013, 08:31 AM
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
(27-07-2013 08:27 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  
(27-07-2013 05:51 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  What are you high? Why do you portray this as some profound apocalyptic revelation? Scientific and technological advances have always possessed a morally ambivalent quality. Studying atomic physics produced both the atomic bomb and nuclear energy. Studying microscopic life gave birth to germ theory, but also bio-chemical warfare. The radio improved tactical communications for war thereby increasing the effectiveness of soldiers, but it also gave us easy globalization and paved the way for cyber technology.

It is just like biological evolution. Every appendage, no matter how beneficial, still presents weaknesses too. Nothing is ever entirely good or entirely bad.

Are you high?

No, nuclear weapons are out of the reach of one crazy man. North Korea's leader alone wouldn't be able to build one. The requirements for building one... buy some uranium at a corner shop. Some caesium for part of the fuse. Facilities to accurately machine the fissile material and shape the charges. Don't think that will be easy for one man any time soon.

Biological weapons, once dna writing becomes easy and cheap then it will be in the reach of one crazy person. The technology has gotten cheaper at a rate faster than Moore's law.

The dna alphabet requires four bottles of chemicals. You can go and buy them right now yourself. I can even point you to a company that will print any sequence for you. They charge by the kilobase. They have a limit to the size but they can even splice it into a lab mouse for you or some other species like yeast. This technology is getting so good that soon people will do this in their own garage.

What I do see from day to day is a creeping tide of information gathering. The surveilance state is on it's way. For good or for bad.

It has already past saturation state. There is now so much information that it is impossible to sift through all of it. You can search it using keywords or phrases but it is impossible to examine every shred of data on an individual basis.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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27-07-2013, 08:45 AM
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
(27-07-2013 08:31 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It has already passed saturation state. There is now so much information that it is impossible to sift through all of it. You can search it using keywords or phrases but it is impossible to examine every shred of data on an individual basis.

Thats what computers and specialised AI is for. A computer program like fritz is a specialized AI for playing chess. Data reduction is nothing new. It's a common problem in computer science. We have the technology and resources to do it now. Cheaply.

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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