Why Big Brother is inevitable
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27-07-2013, 09:07 AM
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
(27-07-2013 08:31 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It has already past saturation state. There is now so much information that it is impossible to sift through all of it. You can search it using keywords or phrases but it is impossible to examine every shred of data on an individual basis.

Where on earth did you get this idea? There isn't that much data to sift through.

Are you talking about the dna sequencing data? Yeah scientists are having a hard time since sequencing has gotten so cheap we have more sequence data than we can handle with current compute resources. They need the compute resources to solve the raw sequence data and compile it into a genome. Its solvable by throwing more computers at it or inventing a sequencing method that doesnt involve smashing the dna to kilobase peices and then trying to peice it back together like glueing together a shredded newspaper. Thats a different story though. Nothing to do with this topic.

We are not computers, and our actions are not random. A computer with the right algorithms will easily pick apart anyone's info and index it in a useful easily searchable manner. You obviously have no idea what the technology is capable of.

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27-07-2013, 09:13 AM
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
(27-07-2013 09:07 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  
(27-07-2013 08:31 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It has already past saturation state. There is now so much information that it is impossible to sift through all of it. You can search it using keywords or phrases but it is impossible to examine every shred of data on an individual basis.

Where on earth did you get this idea? There isn't that much data to sift through.

Are you talking about the dna sequencing data? Yeah scientists are having a hard time since sequencing has gotten so cheap we have more sequence data than we can handle with current compute resources. They need the compute resources to solve the raw sequence data and compile it into a genome. Its solvable by throwing more computers at it or inventing a sequencing method that doesnt involve smashing the dna to kilobase peices and then trying to peice it back together like glueing together a shredded newspaper. Thats a different story though. Nothing to do with this topic.

We are not computers, and our actions are not random. A computer with the right algorithms will easily pick apart anyone's info and index it in a useful easily searchable manner. You obviously have no idea what the technology is capable of.

The current rage in computing is "Big Data", and the intelligence issue is just Big Data writ large.

The key seems to be not just indexing, but relating. There is a great deal of effort going into this are both in the intelligence community and the business community.

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27-07-2013, 09:59 AM
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
(27-07-2013 08:23 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(27-07-2013 08:04 AM)Dom Wrote:  Makes me glad I am not young.

You have faced the same exact dilemmas throughout your life. Nothing has changed. Drinking Beverage

I'm not talking about war. I am talking about freedom. Watching the loss of it creep into everyone's lives right under their noses makes me sad.

I don't want to live in a big brother environment. With any luck I'll live out my life before big brother becomes too intrusive. What intrusive means is subjective.

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27-07-2013, 10:12 AM (This post was last modified: 27-07-2013 10:16 AM by Logica Humano.)
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
(27-07-2013 08:27 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  No, nuclear weapons are out of the reach of one crazy man. North Korea's leader alone wouldn't be able to build one. The requirements for building one... buy some uranium at a corner shop. Some caesium for part of the fuse. Facilities to accurately machine the fissile material and shape the charges. Don't think that will be easy for one man any time soon.

Alright, let's assume that the necessary materials aren't available on the black market. Let's see your reasoning as to how genetically engineered bio-chemical weapons can be engineered in one's basement.

(27-07-2013 08:27 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  Biological weapons, once dna writing becomes easy and cheap then it will be in the reach of one crazy person. The technology has gotten cheaper at a rate faster than Moore's law.

That's it? That is your entire reasoning?

(27-07-2013 08:27 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  The dna alphabet requires four bottles of chemicals. You can go and buy them right now yourself. I can even point you to a company that will print any sequence for you. They charge by the kilobase. They have a limit to the size but they can even splice it into a lab mouse for you or some other species like yeast. This technology is getting so good that soon people will do this in their own garage.

Really? So demonstrate to me how one could sit down and engineer an unstoppable weapon using human DNA inside their garage. What would this weapon do? How would it be transmitted? Demonstrate it to me. Do not simply say that the technology is moving towards that point. Show me what you are saying will be possible in the relevant future.

(27-07-2013 08:27 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  What I do see from day to day is a creeping tide of information gathering. The surveilance state is on it's way. For good or for bad.

I cannot argue against or for that since neither one of us has any idea what will happen. Drinking Beverage

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27-07-2013, 10:41 AM
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
OUr technology has far outrun our culture.

Yes we are getting to the point where we need big brother (it is incredibly hard to make a nuke not because of the knowledge but because of the difficultly in obtaining the materials and concentrating them), but you are correct the biological and electronic terror age is about to dawn.

My problem with big bro is that there is still a drug war going on, there are still people pushing us towards state religion, we are already the first world incarceration leader and we already have political corruption. You can't have these things and have big brother at the same time it's like pouring salt in a wound.

So basically what I'm saying is we need to put big brother on a tight leash and redefine our criminal code and societal values and until that is done I will oppose the invasion of privacy.

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27-07-2013, 11:35 AM
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
(27-07-2013 09:59 AM)Dom Wrote:  I'm not talking about war. I am talking about freedom. Watching the loss of it creep into everyone's lives right under their noses makes me sad.

I don't want to live in a big brother environment. With any luck I'll live out my life before big brother becomes too intrusive. What intrusive means is subjective.

I don't look forward to big brother either, I just think it is inevitable. That it will be a necessary evil, and that it will be abused.
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28-07-2013, 03:26 AM (This post was last modified: 28-07-2013 03:46 AM by DeepThought.)
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
(27-07-2013 10:12 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(27-07-2013 08:27 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  No, nuclear weapons are out of the reach of one crazy man. North Korea's leader alone wouldn't be able to build one. The requirements for building one... buy some uranium at a corner shop. Some caesium for part of the fuse. Facilities to accurately machine the fissile material and shape the charges. Don't think that will be easy for one man any time soon.

Alright, let's assume that the necessary materials aren't available on the black market. Let's see your reasoning as to how genetically engineered bio-chemical weapons can be engineered in one's basement.

(27-07-2013 08:27 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  Biological weapons, once dna writing becomes easy and cheap then it will be in the reach of one crazy person. The technology has gotten cheaper at a rate faster than Moore's law.

That's it? That is your entire reasoning?

Wow, come across like an ignorant Censored...

ok, first off it's pretty dumb to expect my entire reasoning to be place in a single forum post. It's like a creationist asking to prove evolution in a forum post. It's not my job to educate you on what is possible in biology. Go learn something FFS!

(27-07-2013 10:12 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(27-07-2013 08:27 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  The dna alphabet requires four bottles of chemicals. You can go and buy them right now yourself. I can even point you to a company that will print any sequence for you. They charge by the kilobase. They have a limit to the size but they can even splice it into a lab mouse for you or some other species like yeast. This technology is getting so good that soon people will do this in their own garage.

Really? So demonstrate to me how one could sit down and engineer an unstoppable weapon using human DNA inside their garage. What would this weapon do? How would it be transmitted? Demonstrate it to me. Do not simply say that the technology is moving towards that point. Show me what you are saying will be possible in the relevant future.

It doesn't matter what DNA you start with. It's possible to pop out the nucleus of one eukaryotic cell and substitute it for another nucleus - say from yeast, a single celled eukaryote. Then a human cell becomes a yeast cell.

Further, once you are printing dna you don't need access to anything other than genetic sequence data.

Here is an example creating a new species from a synthetically created dna sequence. The complete sequence is over 1 million base pairs.
[Image: artificial-cell-diagram-660x682.jpg]
http://www.jcvi.org/cms/press/press-rele...cher/home/

(27-07-2013 10:12 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(27-07-2013 08:27 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  What I do see from day to day is a creeping tide of information gathering. The surveilance state is on it's way. For good or for bad.

I cannot argue against or for that since neither one of us has any idea what will happen. Drinking Beverage

Well, it's already starting to happen. We are seeing the beginnings of it in America and other countries. Germany may be a bit more strict with this stuff but I don't know how long it will last.

You'll be surprised how quick things can change in an environment of fear and uncertainty.


If you want to download genomes for some nice human pathogens - you can do it here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/

Here - Have some herpes...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genome/?term=txid10298[Organism:exp]

If that isn't enough... eat some Salmonella.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/NC_021870.1

You want some flesh eating disease?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/BX571856.1
This one is methycillin resistant so good luck to you if that shit takes hold in your system.

How about smallpox... There's a memory that scarred most of Europe.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genome/5312?...t_id=15197
Consider Did you get your smallpox vaccination? My parents would be immune. I don't think I am.

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28-07-2013, 03:32 AM
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
(28-07-2013 03:26 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  ok, first off it's pretty dumb to expect my entire reasoning to be place in a single forum post. It's like a creationist asking to prove evolution in a forum post. It's not my job to educate you on what is possible in biology. Go learn something FFS!

I didn't ask you to explain the technicalities. I asked you to demonstrate to me how people will be able to engineer entire new strains of biological weapons in their garage in the near future.

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28-07-2013, 03:49 AM
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
(28-07-2013 03:32 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(28-07-2013 03:26 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  ok, first off it's pretty dumb to expect my entire reasoning to be place in a single forum post. It's like a creationist asking to prove evolution in a forum post. It's not my job to educate you on what is possible in biology. Go learn something FFS!

I didn't ask you to explain the technicalities. I asked you to demonstrate to me how people will be able to engineer entire new strains of biological weapons in their garage in the near future.

Well, read the post and go learn something if you care to.

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28-07-2013, 03:59 AM (This post was last modified: 28-07-2013 04:09 AM by Logica Humano.)
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
(28-07-2013 03:49 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  
(28-07-2013 03:32 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  I didn't ask you to explain the technicalities. I asked you to demonstrate to me how people will be able to engineer entire new strains of biological weapons in their garage in the near future.

Well, read the post and go learn something if you care to.

So how is the average terrorist going to create a weapon out of this information? How can you accurately predict that an individual, just some average person, could do something like this?

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