Why Big Brother is inevitable
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28-07-2013, 12:36 PM
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
(28-07-2013 12:15 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  I love it when I can do this instead of typing up a whole post Tongue




I'm borrowing this for the snowden thread just had that dumbass quote pulled on me.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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28-07-2013, 02:39 PM
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
(28-07-2013 10:59 AM)ridethespiral Wrote:  You are aware that many graduate physics students are asked to construct nuclear weapons (sans-uranium) and most are very successful? There will always be people that understand complex shit, and some of them will be crazy and/or greedy. The only reason we have not entered a thermonuclear apocalypse yet is because it takes the energy grid of a decent sized country to enrich uranium.

If just 0.5% of the population knows how to make a bioweapon that is still 35 million people capable of making said weapon. I wouldn't be surprised if that number was much larger given how important the industry will become, how much easier it will likely become and our exponentially growing population.

I haven't denied this. DeepThought had, however, painted a picture in which the occasional domestic terrorist could easily create a lethal pathogen. The capabilities to develop one exist now, and there are definitely people out there willing to so. If we are to be scared, why fear the future? Why not cower now if it is such a big threat?

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28-07-2013, 03:34 PM
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
(27-07-2013 04:15 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I have friends who tell me we have a right to bear arms. I agree. But I don't think that right is absolute. I don't care if you own a musket, rifle, shot gun, or canon for that matter. However I don't think you should be allowed to own a 20 megaton thermal nuclear weapon. Between nuclear bomb and musket there is a fine line which on one side exists the weapons a common person can arm himself with, and on the other a common person should be prohibited from arming themselves with. Where that line is, I'm not quite sure....I just know it exists.

What about the right to privacy? I don't think its absolute either. I don't like the ideal of the NSA monitoring all my communications and the communications of every other American. But that attitude could easily change.

Suppose a nuclear warhead went missing from the United States arsenal? Would you want the NSA monitoring everyone's communication in an attempt to locate it? Privacy rights be damned we gotta find that thing before some ding danged physco destroys a city.

Technology is allowing a person to do more things....including slaughtering more people if they wanted too. When the Constitution was written, some whack job could probably kill only one person, maybe two, with his musket before a crowd could subdue him. Now technology allows a person to kill tens, hundreds, or thousands....and the evil doer doesn't even need a gun(fly a plane into a building for instance).

Suppose in 100 years technology allowed an intelligent and cunning person to kill millions of people...like if they had a 20 megaton thermal nuclear weapon. If you lived in such a situation would you want everyone's actions monitored?

Suppose in 1000 years technology allows an intelligent and cunning person to destroy the universe. If you lived in such a situation would you want everyone's actions monitored? I think I would.

Now I can't be certain that technology will continue to improve the efficiency at which a single man can slaughter other men....but I would bet everything I own that it will. With that in mind, I just can't see how we can avoid Big Brother.

If you are going through information that is public and accessible, should be public and accessible or could otherwise be seen as reasonable to go through, there isn't even a problem.

A problem comes around when we are dealing with those who want to unreasonably seize or kill people, or who want to unreasonably go through their belongings, information, homes, etc., without any amount of reason, evidence or justification, beyond just, "Are (the rest of) you dead yet...that's what we thought".

I always see the First Amendment as being a problem. It's not like it would make a difference, but it would at least be nice if information that was valuable for the public would be shared transparently. With a history of corruption, I really can't settle for the, "You're not dead, so we must be doing our jobs correctly"...."You should be afraid of your neighbors", explanations.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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28-07-2013, 03:39 PM
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
(28-07-2013 02:39 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(28-07-2013 10:59 AM)ridethespiral Wrote:  You are aware that many graduate physics students are asked to construct nuclear weapons (sans-uranium) and most are very successful? There will always be people that understand complex shit, and some of them will be crazy and/or greedy. The only reason we have not entered a thermonuclear apocalypse yet is because it takes the energy grid of a decent sized country to enrich uranium.

If just 0.5% of the population knows how to make a bioweapon that is still 35 million people capable of making said weapon. I wouldn't be surprised if that number was much larger given how important the industry will become, how much easier it will likely become and our exponentially growing population.

I haven't denied this. DeepThought had, however, painted a picture in which the occasional domestic terrorist could easily create a lethal pathogen. The capabilities to develop one exist now, and there are definitely people out there willing to so. If we are to be scared, why fear the future? Why not cower now if it is such a big threat?

For the same reason we don't do under desk drills incase of A-Bombs anymore. For the same reason that I'm not sleeping in the basement because of nuclear proliferation. Futility.

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28-07-2013, 07:22 PM (This post was last modified: 28-07-2013 07:47 PM by DeepThought.)
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
(28-07-2013 02:39 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  I haven't denied this. DeepThought had, however, painted a picture in which the occasional domestic terrorist could easily create a lethal pathogen. The capabilities to develop one exist now, and there are definitely people out there willing to so. If we are to be scared, why fear the future? Why not cower now if it is such a big threat?

I did no such thing, however, one of the current goals in biotech is to create an automated testing platform where you feed in a gene sequence and the cell is automatically created with all the genetic modifications you require. That technology will allow biotech to leap forward in discoveries. It will allow the creation of new species of bacteria for bioremediation and efficient conversion of atmospheric co2 into octane, among other things.

This kind of test bed will become cheap and easy to use. It will still require brains to operate and know what you are doing with the genes.

The requirement of having a decent head on your shoulders isn't much of an obstacle to overcome. BTW... most crazy people have above average intelligence.

You paint me as trembling in fear awaiting an apocalypse. I'm not.

As technologies like this progress, there will be more oversight required. When it comes to this technology there is nothing in the way to stop someone from creating a deadly pathogen. It only requires four bottles of chemicals and an automated test suite. Then give it a viable gene sequence. (Maybe I simplified it a bit but my point still stands.)

See my hands? They aren't shaking.

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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29-07-2013, 06:42 AM
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
(28-07-2013 07:22 PM)DeepThought Wrote:  BTW... most crazy people have above average intelligence.

Do you have statistics to back that up? Consider

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29-07-2013, 07:01 AM (This post was last modified: 29-07-2013 07:37 AM by DeepThought.)
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
(29-07-2013 06:42 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(28-07-2013 07:22 PM)DeepThought Wrote:  BTW... most crazy people have above average intelligence.

Do you have statistics to back that up? Consider

You really are a lazy bastard aren't you!

Why dont you look it up yourself? There is tonnes of data you can wade through. Here is just one source of many.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/news/science-new...side.shtml

I know allot of smart people that have conditions like bipolar, etc. Einstein and Nicola Tesla were afflicted by some sort of condition based on historical evidence.

Maybe the jury is still out, but smarter people seem more likely to suffer from something. Like that saying, ignorance is bliss.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/in...llness.htm

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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29-07-2013, 07:52 AM
RE: Why Big Brother is inevitable
(29-07-2013 07:01 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  You really are a lazy bastard aren't you!

Why dont you look it up yourself? There is tonnes of data you can wade through. Here is just one source of many.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/news/science-new...side.shtml

I know allot of smart people that have conditions like bipolar, etc. Einstein and Nicola Tesla were afflicted by some sort of condition based on historical evidence.

Maybe the jury is still out, but smarter people seem more likely to suffer from something. Like that saying, ignorance is bliss.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/in...llness.htm

I can be quite lazy, yes. Tongue

I did not feel compelled to look it up because I did not make the claim. It does seem the jury might still be out, though for the sake of argument, it seems to be that many crazy people may have elevated intelligence, and not that most people with elevated intelligence are crazy. I would like to see a comparative study, though I do know it would be unlikely to obtain accurate results.

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