Why Can't People Do Good Deeds Without God Being Involved?
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21-01-2014, 05:50 PM (This post was last modified: 21-01-2014 07:18 PM by WindyCityJazz.)
Why Can't People Do Good Deeds Without God Being Involved?
I'm heading back home on the train today, and as I'm about to walk down the stairs to the tunnel I see a guy frantically searching the ground. I asked him if he needed some help and he said that he could not find his 24 hour bus/train pass. I helped him look, but we couldn't find it, so I told him I'd walk over to store with him and buy him a new pass. He says " God must have sent you to help me." I said "I highly doubt that God would send you an atheist to help you."

Why is it so hard to believe that people do good deeds out of the goodness of their hearts without some motive? Why does somebody helping another person have to automatically be attributed to some invisible man in the sky? Is it really that hard to believe that helping our fellow man would not happen unless some god had something to do with it? At the same time, why is it that when something bad happens to them, they don't blame their god? It's always good things happen to them because of the work of their god, while bad things happening to them is never the work of their god.

I just find it kind of depressing that a lot of people can't just think of a good deed as being a good deed and nothing more - that a person doesn't do something good without some motivating factor out of self-interest.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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21-01-2014, 05:54 PM
RE: Why Can't People Do Good Deeds Without God Being Involved?
(21-01-2014 05:50 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  I'm heading back home on the train today, and as I'm about to walk down the stairs to the tunnel I see a guy frantically searching the ground. I asked him if he needed some help and he said that he could not find his 24 hour bus/train pass. I helped him look, but we couldn't find it, so I told him I'd walk over to store with him and buy him a new pass. He says " God must have sent you to help me." I said "I highly doubt that God would send you an atheist to help you."

Why is it so hard to believe that people do good deeds out of the goodness of their hearts without some motive? Why does somebody helping another person have to automatically be attributed to some invisible man in the sky? Is it really that hard to believe that helping our fellow man would not happen unless some god had something to do with it? At the same time, why is it that when something bad happens to them, they don't blame their god? It's always good things happen to them because of the work of their god, while bad things happening to them is never the work of their god.

I just find it kind of depressing that a lot of people can't just think of a good deed as being a good deed and nothing more - that a person doesn't do something good without some motivating factor.

We see that argument presented here a lot -- "what keeps you atheists form being little Charles Mansons, etc".

The thing is, the ONLY thing that keeps people who ask that stupid bullshit from being little Charles Mansons themselves, is the thin line of their beliefs in fairy tales.

Now imagine if one day they wake up and realize that these idiotic beliefs that are the only thing keeping them from ripping and running are all just silly bullshit.


THAT is fucking SCARY.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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21-01-2014, 06:24 PM
RE: Why Can't People Do Good Deeds Without God Being Involved?
For me is was the bad things that happened in my life that pushed me towards atheism. I questioned why this god would allow such bad things happen to a member of my family. It was the beginning of many years of living in the atheist closet.

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21-01-2014, 06:27 PM
RE: Why Can't People Do Good Deeds Without God Being Involved?
I must say that in my recent travels through the atheist community, I have talked to more understanding, genuinely nice people that don't believe in god than the other way around. During my stint in christianity, we were made to believe that atheist's were devil worshipers that only did bad things. Upon opening my eyes i found that its quite the opposite. Atheists don't hate people, yet christians hate atheists, and catholics, and jews, and hindu's...etc.

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21-01-2014, 06:45 PM
RE: Why Can't People Do Good Deeds Without God Being Involved?
WindyCityJazz

Cannot really add more to your post - basically sums it all up.
An atheist or anyone can do good deeds because they want to, not dictated to by a deity to force them to be good for rewards in heavens or punishment in Hells.

Just be good for its own sake, its own benefit and for the benefit of the recipient. Its actually very simple. No need to make it any more complicated, no need to please a God. That's the end of my post.

If I do need to waffle on...
It is worrisome if a theist only acts moral because they think they are being watched by a deity. Its a sign of insecurity and not really moral in the first place if one is being coerced to be moral by threats of reward & punishment.

SOme theists say they are moral because "they want to emulate God", NOT for reward or fear of punishment. What the heck does emulating God or being in the Divine image even mean ?
In the Bible God tells Abraham to sacrifice Isaac - not exactly something to emulate but barbarism.
Jesus family values are abhorrent (dozens of verses to back this up !!! - need I fill the thread with quotes of Jesus inadequate family values !!!)

In the Quran...don't even let me go thereEvil_monsterEvil_monsterEvil_monster. (just look at the violence & hostility in the Islamic world from West Africa........stretching the African subcontinent to middleEast........stretching all the way to East Asia Indonesia & Malasia....the common thread is...........

Basically the Quran reads like a military manual.


We need to go back to the basics, back to reason, back to reality.

Aristotle had a brilliant system of moral virtue theory in the nicomachean ethics.-
OK Aristotle has some short falls not condemning slavery (and some other examples)- but in principle if well argued with reason the system can be refined as societies mature & develop unlike systems in the Bible & QUran which are fixed by bronze age & desert nomad people revelations. What I mean if someone came today and showed Aristotle a cosmopolitan world and what factors lead to
well-being and a flourishing society he would be humble enough to say "Hey, I made some mistakes, lets go correct them, thankyou for enlightening me with reason"

Try do the same thing with a fundamentalist CHristian or Muslim and you cannot get anywhere.

If not Aristotle then Spinoza was another great moral teacher, far from needing to claim perfection & if well argued with reason any mistakes can be corrected but ultimately teaching being moral is the reasonable thing to do both for its own sake
and because the cooperation lead to a flourishing society with well being.

So its simple - God is not required for any moral teaching. What is required is reason & application of empathy which we are all naturally born with (except the 1% psychopaths who may simply lack the moral hardware - perhaps religions may keep them in check or may even make them worse by motivating the psychopaths to enjoy torturing the out-group infidels with great joy and passion- burn those witches mixing potions & making spells !

In any case of course if atheists act irrationally with rules which don't work and end up with badly run corrupt, irrational political systems (which emulate religions !!!)then they also create extremely dysfunctional societies (think N.Korea or failure of Stalin)
It is interesting to see the parallels between fundamentalist religious theocratic moral failures and those of irrational atheist political systems - much in common !!!
(instead or worshipping an irrational immoral supposedly all powerful deity the irrational atheist society worship (or forced to worship) a person who acts like a deity with fascist, totalitarian dictatorship attributes. )

We need pursuit of reason !
If you agree then donate some reputation points in a moral and responsible manner because you are not commanded to SmileSmartassThumbsup

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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21-01-2014, 07:51 PM
RE: Why Can't People Do Good Deeds Without God Being Involved?
(21-01-2014 06:27 PM)IQuestionEverything Wrote:  I must say that in my recent travels through the atheist community, I have talked to more understanding, genuinely nice people that don't believe in god than the other way around. During my stint in christianity, we were made to believe that atheist's were devil worshipers that only did bad things. Upon opening my eyes i found that its quite the opposite. Atheists don't hate people, yet christians hate atheists, and catholics, and jews, and hindu's...etc.

Yeah.

Just don't tell anyone about the baby eating.....

Big Grin



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It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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21-01-2014, 08:13 PM
RE: Why Can't People Do Good Deeds Without God Being Involved?
People, unfortunately, think that they need god. They are weak.

There is actually a theological explanation, whereby the theists considers it a blessing to be weak, backed up by Jesus' theological explanation of the weak inheriting the kingdom of heaven, and the theist states that it is better to be weak and needing to rely upon god than to be without him.
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21-01-2014, 08:30 PM
RE: Why Can't People Do Good Deeds Without God Being Involved?
(21-01-2014 07:51 PM)Taqiyya Mockiisgbird Wrote:  
(21-01-2014 06:27 PM)IQuestionEverything Wrote:  I must say that in my recent travels through the atheist community, I have talked to more understanding, genuinely nice people that don't believe in god than the other way around. During my stint in christianity, we were made to believe that atheist's were devil worshipers that only did bad things. Upon opening my eyes i found that its quite the opposite. Atheists don't hate people, yet christians hate atheists, and catholics, and jews, and hindu's...etc.

Yeah.

Just don't tell anyone about the baby eating.....

Big Grin



...and welcome to the Snake Pit Thumbsup

Lol thanks... secret is safe with me

And Always,
QuestionEverything
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21-01-2014, 08:31 PM
RE: Why Can't People Do Good Deeds Without God Being Involved?
I actually think it sometimes pisses 'em off when an atheist does something "good" simply because it feels good to make someone else feel better from time to time.
I've given that as an answer to that question only to be met with a look that said the questioner would like to skin me alive Undecided Bothers them that a godless heathen is a better person than they are. Or they don't believe you; screw 'em.

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21-01-2014, 08:33 PM
RE: Why Can't People Do Good Deeds Without God Being Involved?
(21-01-2014 08:31 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  I actually think it sometimes pisses 'em off when an atheist does something "good" simply because it feels good to make someone else feel better from time to time.
I've given that as an answer to that question only to be met with a look that said the questioner would like to skin me alive Undecided Bothers them that a godless heathen is a better person than they are. Or they don't believe you; screw 'em.

Agreed!

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QuestionEverything
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