Why Can't People Do Good Deeds Without God Being Involved?
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22-01-2014, 09:15 PM
RE: Why Can't People Do Good Deeds Without God Being Involved?
(22-01-2014 08:41 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(22-01-2014 08:32 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  Let the record show that YOU are the one using the word God.
I am asking about free-will as against determinism.

If you dont freely decide to act according to a moral standard then your action is hardly altruism. Instead, it is just pre-programming inside the wetware you call a brain.

I can program a robot to help little old ladies cross the road. So where is the altruistic intent? Where is the altruistic MOTIVE?

In the robot or in me?

I'm happy to bring God into the discussion at this point. (If you want.) Cool

Why don't you take your sad attempt to derail Windy's thread with your pathetic free will/determinism trolling bullshit, shove it up your ass and go the fuck away.

Thanks TM, I didn't feel like posting another reply to that idiot and falling into the trap of derailing it into some topic than what it was intended for. I find it funny how somebody who believes that stories about talking snakes, a man building a boat and putting two of every animal in the world on it while the entire planet floods, and a man living inside of a whale goes and attacks atheists and tells them they are not using their brains. Rolleyes

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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22-01-2014, 09:31 PM
RE: Why Can't People Do Good Deeds Without God Being Involved?
(22-01-2014 08:41 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(22-01-2014 08:32 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  Let the record show that YOU are the one using the word God.
I am asking about free-will as against determinism.

If you dont freely decide to act according to a moral standard then your action is hardly altruism. Instead, it is just pre-programming inside the wetware you call a brain.

I can program a robot to help little old ladies cross the road. So where is the altruistic intent? Where is the altruistic MOTIVE?

In the robot or in me?

I'm happy to bring God into the discussion at this point. (If you want.) Cool

Why don't you take your sad attempt to derail Windy's thread with your pathetic free will/determinism trolling bullshit, shove it up your ass and go the fuck away.

Dont you trust the Mods here? Too gutless/lazy to use the report button? Afraid your complaint will fall on deaf ears?
Why dont you take your campaign against free speech and shove it!

(22-01-2014 09:15 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  Thanks TM, I didn't feel like posting another reply to that idiot...

Oh you poor thing! What a relief that nobody FORCES you to post stuff.
Relax. Go drink some green tea. Breathe in. Breathe out. This too shall pass.

Oh WAIT!
I see you actually DO want to carry on about me instead of the actual topic.

(22-01-2014 09:15 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  ...falling into the trap of derailing it into some topic than what it was intended for. I find it funny how somebody who believes that stories about talking snakes, a man building a boat and putting two of every animal in the world on it while the entire planet floods, and a man living inside of a whale goes and attacks atheists and tells them they are not using their brains. Rolleyes

I find it funny that you rather talk about the bible and God in an Op about what motivates altruism.
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22-01-2014, 09:49 PM
RE: Why Can't People Do Good Deeds Without God Being Involved?
(22-01-2014 09:31 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  
(22-01-2014 08:41 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Why don't you take your sad attempt to derail Windy's thread with your pathetic free will/determinism trolling bullshit, shove it up your ass and go the fuck away.

Dont you trust the Mods here?

The mods are just fine here.

Quote: Too gutless/lazy to use the report button?

I don't need no steenking report button to kick your ass all over the forum.
Quote:Afraid your complaint will fall on deaf ears?

You answered it, didn't you, dipshit.

Quote:Why dont you take your campaign against free speech and shove it!

I'll shove it right up YOUR ass.

Quote:
(22-01-2014 09:15 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  Thanks TM, I didn't feel like posting another reply to that idiot...

Oh you poor thing! What a relief that nobody FORCES you to post stuff.
Relax. Go drink some green tea. Breathe in. Breathe out. This too shall pass.

It's Windy's thread. You are attempting to derail it with your irrelevant bullshit. We are calling you on it. Deal with it, troll.

Quote:Oh WAIT!
I see you actually DO want to carry on about me instead of the actual topic.

We are simply kicking your sorry ass to the curb, and will continue on at our leisure.

Quote:
(22-01-2014 09:15 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  ...falling into the trap of derailing it into some topic than what it was intended for. I find it funny how somebody who believes that stories about talking snakes, a man building a boat and putting two of every animal in the world on it while the entire planet floods, and a man living inside of a whale goes and attacks atheists and tells them they are not using their brains. Rolleyes

I find it funny that you rather talk about the bible and God in an Op about what motivates altruism.

I find it funny that you have so little in your fucking life to do that you feel compelled to troll in an atheist forum. You really should get professional help for that.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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23-01-2014, 10:57 AM
RE: Why Can't People Do Good Deeds Without God Being Involved?
(22-01-2014 08:33 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(22-01-2014 02:26 AM)Dena Wrote:  They just sell themselves short. If they woke up next week no longer believing in their god they would be the same people, for the most part. They wouldn't turn into "little Charles Mansons".


(22-01-2014 10:22 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Sorry, but this is the same fallacious reasoning applied in reverse. The same as you do not become immoral because of your lack of believe, they do not become moral because of their having belief. Remove the belief and I doubt very seriously that their morals would change all that much, if at all. In fact, they would then be atheists so maybe their morals would actually improve.



I would hope that you were right, but I have seen theists admit that very thing.

Albeit usually in the context of a claim that there is nothing stopping us from being little Mansons... Dodgy
Yes, but since they are theists, then they are guessing at how they would be if they had no faith. There's a pretty good chance that they believe they would be just like atheists which, in their mind, would be people that have no moral constraints. Therefore, they are likely to guess that they too would become immoral. However, if they truly have good morals now, there is no reason that would change upon losing their faith - any more than it did for atheists who went through that same transition.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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23-01-2014, 11:53 AM
RE: Why Can't People Do Good Deeds Without God Being Involved?
[Image: 11#11]

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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23-01-2014, 02:28 PM
RE: Why Can't People Do Good Deeds Without God Being Involved?
(22-01-2014 08:46 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(22-01-2014 07:02 PM)Alla Wrote:  Blah blah blah....

When are you going to tell us why your church masters are afraid to show the supposed golden tablets that your church's founder supposedly was given by your fairy tale gawd?


Because I know the answer and I bet deep down you do too.
Let's say they would show them. What would it mean for you? What would it prove to you?

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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23-01-2014, 02:40 PM
RE: Why Can't People Do Good Deeds Without God Being Involved?
(22-01-2014 09:49 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(22-01-2014 09:31 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  Dont you trust the Mods here?

The mods are just fine here.

Quote: Too gutless/lazy to use the report button?

I don't need no steenking report button to kick your ass all over the forum.
Quote:Afraid your complaint will fall on deaf ears?

You answered it, didn't you, dipshit.

Quote:Why dont you take your campaign against free speech and shove it!

I'll shove it right up YOUR ass.

Quote:Oh you poor thing! What a relief that nobody FORCES you to post stuff.
Relax. Go drink some green tea. Breathe in. Breathe out. This too shall pass.

It's Windy's thread. You are attempting to derail it with your irrelevant bullshit. We are calling you on it. Deal with it, troll.

Quote:Oh WAIT!
I see you actually DO want to carry on about me instead of the actual topic.

We are simply kicking your sorry ass to the curb, and will continue on at our leisure.

Quote:I find it funny that you rather talk about the bible and God in an Op about what motivates altruism.

I find it funny that you have so little in your fucking life to do that you feel compelled to troll in an atheist forum. You really should get professional help for that.



Since I've been trying hard to *hear* Alla as best as I can........... I'm trying to imagine what it would be like for me IF the three of us were sitting at a table trying to talk this out (?) I imagine I'd need a pretty big bottle of Excedrin and/or some serious quantities of Jamesons.

As it stands so far, Taq, I don't think Alla's trying to be a troll here. I think she's very naive and under the impression that she's supposed to *share* her faith. She has said she's here to look for some answers. But I don't see her seeking as must as I do her testifying.
I dunno. I've just been trying to see her in a non-combative manner to see if we might actually get somewhere. Still confused by her faith and why she chooses as she does. But I guess the concept of faith confuses me more often than not regardless of what label you put on it.
And I know you've seen me do this with theists before - try to be patient and read what they say..........allow them ALL the space in the world to see if we can have a meeting of the minds so to speak. *sigh* for myself - I'd like to at least try.

Sadcryface

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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23-01-2014, 06:05 PM
RE: Why Can't People Do Good Deeds Without God Being Involved?
god isnt required for morality. Easiest example of that is Scandinavian countries, totally secular, yet they are at the very top tier of civilized countries...low crime, high family values, high quality of life, all without god. Then the polar opposite, the most religiously devout country is most likely saudia arabia...and they are at the bottom tier of civilization for quality of life, etc....the proof is in the pudding so to speak.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/28/us/28b...=all&_r=1&

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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23-01-2014, 09:58 PM
RE: Why Can't People Do Good Deeds Without God Being Involved?
(23-01-2014 10:57 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(22-01-2014 08:33 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  I would hope that you were right, but I have seen theists admit that very thing.

Albeit usually in the context of a claim that there is nothing stopping us from being little Mansons... Dodgy
Yes, but since they are theists, then they are guessing at how they would be if they had no faith. There's a pretty good chance that they believe they would be just like atheists which, in their mind, would be people that have no moral constraints. Therefore, they are likely to guess that they too would become immoral. However, if they truly have good morals now, there is no reason that would change upon losing their faith - any more than it did for atheists who went through that same transition.

Yup a pretty good chance. Let's hope so, anyway.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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23-01-2014, 10:01 PM
RE: Why Can't People Do Good Deeds Without God Being Involved?
(23-01-2014 02:40 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(22-01-2014 09:49 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  The mods are just fine here.


I don't need no steenking report button to kick your ass all over the forum.

You answered it, didn't you, dipshit.


I'll shove it right up YOUR ass.


It's Windy's thread. You are attempting to derail it with your irrelevant bullshit. We are calling you on it. Deal with it, troll.


We are simply kicking your sorry ass to the curb, and will continue on at our leisure.


I find it funny that you have so little in your fucking life to do that you feel compelled to troll in an atheist forum. You really should get professional help for that.



Since I've been trying hard to *hear* Alla as best as I can........... I'm trying to imagine what it would be like for me IF the three of us were sitting at a table trying to talk this out (?) I imagine I'd need a pretty big bottle of Excedrin and/or some serious quantities of Jamesons.

As it stands so far, Taq, I don't think Alla's trying to be a troll here. I think she's very naive and under the impression that she's supposed to *share* her faith. She has said she's here to look for some answers. But I don't see her seeking as must as I do her testifying.
I dunno. I've just been trying to see her in a non-combative manner to see if we might actually get somewhere. Still confused by her faith and why she chooses as she does. But I guess the concept of faith confuses me more often than not regardless of what label you put on it.
And I know you've seen me do this with theists before - try to be patient and read what they say..........allow them ALL the space in the world to see if we can have a meeting of the minds so to speak. *sigh* for myself - I'd like to at least try.

Sadcryface

Hey, hun, my above response was to LyinOrc.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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