Why Christianity is the most popular religion
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
15-06-2012, 05:09 PM
RE: Why Christianity is the most popular religion
(15-06-2012 03:11 PM)Vosur Wrote:  un·known

adjective
1.
not known; not within the range of one's knowledge, experience, or understanding; strange; unfamiliar.
2.
not discovered, explored, identified, or ascertained: the unknown parts of Antarctica.
3.
not widely known; not famous; obscure: an unknown writer.

We know that these tribes exist because photographs have been taken of them. However, there hasn't been any further investigation made on some of them. You may want to read this article so that you can understand what I'm talking about. Don't you notice how easily the whole basis of your argument can be refuted?

Apparently, you also do not know what circular logic is.

[Image: break-the-cycle.jpg]
This concept does not apply to scientific books, because they are based on plenty external sources and the contents can easily be checked for their validity.

Quote:You can't just change the question every time you do not like an answer.
Don't blame me for your lack of understanding. The statement "you have yet to answer my initial question" was not referring to the question followed after that, but to the one at the end of the comment. I'm talking about this one: "How do the native tribes that are living in the deepest jungles of our world get to know anything about the Christian God when they're living far away from any kind of civilization?"

Since you have decided that speaking with me is a waste of time, I will forego answering this post.

It is clear that you cannot handle someone disagreeing with you, so, I guess you will have to end your conversation with me.

I will point out one thing: if there is a picture of these tribes, they are known. Just as you change your question, you feel free to decide which definition of a word you will use. I choose this one:

2.
not discovered, explored, identified, or ascertained: the unknown parts of Antarctica.

And in particular...not discovered.

See how that works?

Quote:The statement "you have yet to answer my initial question" was not referring to the question followed after that, but to the one at the end of the comment. I'm talking about this one: "How do the native tribes that are living in the deepest jungles of our world get to know anything about the Christian God when they're living far away from any kind of civilization?"

This...

Quote:You have yet to answer my initial question. On what basis do you claim that the tribes in the jungles have their own Gods?

...seems pretty clear to me.

Thanks for the conversation, I still enjoyed it.

GTY
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-06-2012, 05:16 PM
RE: Why Christianity is the most popular religion
(15-06-2012 05:09 PM)S.T. Ranger Wrote:  It is clear that you cannot handle someone disagreeing with you, so, I guess you will have to end your conversation with me.
Is that so? I guess that's why I spent about a week arguing with a Holocaust denier about whether the Holocaust happened. You obviously haven't even read the negative entry on your page. It clearly states that you're using logical fallacies all the time.

Ignorance is bliss.

[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-06-2012, 07:09 AM (This post was last modified: 16-06-2012 09:41 AM by S.T. Ranger.)
RE: Why Christianity is the most popular religion
(15-06-2012 05:16 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(15-06-2012 05:09 PM)S.T. Ranger Wrote:  It is clear that you cannot handle someone disagreeing with you, so, I guess you will have to end your conversation with me.
Is that so?

Apparently.

Have I failed to answer your questions? As I said, you may not agree with the answers or comments provided, but I have not claimed superiority and refused to speak with, tagging my departure with insult.

I will continue to talk to anybody who so chooses. But that's okay, I can understand it is easier to make comments which will be hailed by your peers and...duck out.

(15-06-2012 05:16 PM)Vosur Wrote:  I guess that's why I spent about a week arguing with a Holocaust denier about whether the Holocaust happened.

Yet it only takes a few exchanges about whether there are unknown tribes in Africa to decide I am an idiot?

lol

Okay, whatever.

(15-06-2012 05:16 PM)Vosur Wrote:  You obviously haven't even read the negative entry on your page.

Actually, I have. Lets look at a few:



Quote:Vosur (8) - Last updated Yesterday, 05:23 PM

Negative (-1): By creating logical fallacies (circular logic, strawman, etc.) throughout your posts and by being that ignorant towards scientific facts, you make discussing with you a waste of time.


Let's think about this for a second. When asked to present evidence of the unknown tribesman, you produce an article that is scientific fact, apparently. Now, the way I see it, until the unknown tribesman have been "discovered," and actually studied, it does not seem to me that this could actually be accepted as scientific fact. If it is, then I guess I had better rethink the pictures of Bigfoot and UFOs.

On top of that, because you have not yourself met these unknown tribesman, you are reliant upon what you have been told. Meaning, in a most unscientific manner you are presenting something circumstantial as fact.

And I am ignorant of scientific fact? This is true in a variety of ways, however, I do not present my beliefs as scientific fact. Except of course, where science may be involved in mundane issues that relate to spiritual things, such as it might be scientific fact that there are at times healings which science cannot explain.

Here are the other negative reps I have been given:


Quote:Jedah (3) - Last updated 09-06-2012, 12:37 AM

Negative (-1): Discussion is not his true intention, trolling is.




Azaraith (5) - Last updated 03-06-2012, 07:28 PM

Negative (-1): Should receive the Ignoble Prize for internet idiocy...



Mark Fulton (14) - Last updated 02-06-2012, 10:50 PM

Negative (-1): the lights are on but nobody's home



kingschosen (56) - Last updated 02-06-2012, 10:38 AM

Negative (-2): I rarely give neg rep, so congrats. You constantly create logical fallacies to attack and make no sense. You pretend to know the subject matter that is being discussed. Your tatics are counterproductive to Christian/atheist relationships.



Bucky Ball (20) - Last updated 01-06-2012, 11:15 AM

Negative (-1): .. clueless


Is it a scientific fact that if someone posts a neg rep that the explanation is without controversy?

lol


(15-06-2012 05:16 PM)Vosur Wrote:  It clearly states that you're using logical fallacies all the time.

And rep sheet is as above reproach as wikipedia? (there's a joke there if you look hard enough)

(15-06-2012 05:16 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Ignorance is bliss.

Sometimes, Vosur, it really is.

GTY
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-06-2012, 03:55 PM
RE: Why Christianity is the most popular religion
(14-06-2012 01:40 PM)S.T. Ranger Wrote:  Okay, this is interesting. You are in a good place to determine the validity of the claim that "Zim is the most Christian place on earth (loose quote)."
I said one of the most Christian. I've been to UK and SA for comparison. SA's about the same as Zim in terms of Christianity. Basically it's unheard of to have no religion, and religion is overwhelmingly Christian.

Quote:Were your parents Christians? Are they still?
Yes and yes.

Quote:Were you taught Christian doctrine as a child?

How did that doctrine, if in fact you were taught it, compare to the actions of those around you?
1. Yes.

2. Not sure. You mean, did people who claimed to be Christian in fact act as Christians should? But you see, I thought that Christians were the only option. So people acting like people I thought were Christians acting like Christians. If I saw someone do something contrary to what I was taught I'd think "That guy's a dick" not "that Christian's a dick, clearly the Bible is in error".

Quote:Can you present a Zim preacher or preaching that might represent the teaching you were yourself exposed to?

It has to be kept in mind that while basic doctrines may be for the most part embraced by many individual groups, such as those within Protestant denominations, there can be a variety of doctrinal differences that set them apart and at times separate them.
Not really. My fam were religious but we didn't go to church. Some disagreement with the minister over doctrine. So we got it from Dad every Sunday. Grandma was holy as holy and we always went to her place to sing hymns on Sunday evenings too. We were protestant though. Never dived into the doctrinal differences. All was pretty incomprehensible to me anyway.

Quote:I would be interested to hear an account through your witness. Coming from a country where events like this have not occurred in my lifetime, I can only speculate as to what people went through during times of intense tribulation.
Let's get it straight. I never went through much. Saw a few things. Left before it got really bad, along with the rest of the family. But what I saw... It hit the homeless people the worst. Guys who really had no future in the first place. We used to see people who were literally on their last legs, literally going to die in the next few weeks... My brother had a teacher at school who was disappeared... A friend's Dad was killed by the so called war veterans. There were lots of things like that. People were afraid. If you were outspoken there was a damn good chance you'd end up dead, or at least the government were successful in spreading that impression. Government ministers had outrageous lavish lifestyles... and a correspondingly high chance of dying in a car accident.

In all this... people said "God is angry with us, God has abandoned us, we have been evil, we must try harder" I heard this on numerous occasions from numerous people. The dominant Christianity in Zim is either Catholicism or the "VaPostori", the Apostolics. It's a mixture of Christianity and the local preChristian religion, such as Christianity has thrived on for centuries. They may not be run of the mill Christians but by damn they know their scripture. Anyway, some big new churches were built, right at the height of the madness... The one great thing about the VaPostori at least is that they meet outdoors and don't waste time on buildings.
Quote:No...you blame the man himself. You can ask, "Why did God allow this to happen," and that is a valid question if you believe God could have prevented it. But let me ask you this: how do you know that God has not prevented many, many things in your life?

Can you say you know that the bad things that have happened to you, your country, or those you know...are the only possible tragedies? Is it not possible that but for God's intervention, you and I would be in a far worse state than we are right now? I can say for myself apart from God's intervention I would probably already be dead.
Your God is not worthy of worship. If I thought he existed my one sane response would be to declare war on him. The rest of your post only confirms this to me. I'm afraid I can't respond to each point individually, I don't have the patience or interest.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-06-2012, 08:57 AM
RE: Why Christianity is the most popular religion
(16-06-2012 03:55 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(14-06-2012 01:40 PM)S.T. Ranger Wrote:  Okay, this is interesting. You are in a good place to determine the validity of the claim that "Zim is the most Christian place on earth (loose quote)."
I said one of the most Christian. I've been to UK and SA for comparison. SA's about the same as Zim in terms of Christianity. Basically it's unheard of to have no religion, and religion is overwhelmingly Christian.

Quote:Were your parents Christians? Are they still?
Yes and yes.

Quote:Were you taught Christian doctrine as a child?

How did that doctrine, if in fact you were taught it, compare to the actions of those around you?
1. Yes.

2. Not sure. You mean, did people who claimed to be Christian in fact act as Christians should? But you see, I thought that Christians were the only option. So people acting like people I thought were Christians acting like Christians. If I saw someone do something contrary to what I was taught I'd think "That guy's a dick" not "that Christian's a dick, clearly the Bible is in error".

Quote:Can you present a Zim preacher or preaching that might represent the teaching you were yourself exposed to?

It has to be kept in mind that while basic doctrines may be for the most part embraced by many individual groups, such as those within Protestant denominations, there can be a variety of doctrinal differences that set them apart and at times separate them.
Not really. My fam were religious but we didn't go to church. Some disagreement with the minister over doctrine. So we got it from Dad every Sunday. Grandma was holy as holy and we always went to her place to sing hymns on Sunday evenings too. We were protestant though. Never dived into the doctrinal differences. All was pretty incomprehensible to me anyway.

Quote:I would be interested to hear an account through your witness. Coming from a country where events like this have not occurred in my lifetime, I can only speculate as to what people went through during times of intense tribulation.
Let's get it straight. I never went through much. Saw a few things. Left before it got really bad, along with the rest of the family. But what I saw... It hit the homeless people the worst. Guys who really had no future in the first place. We used to see people who were literally on their last legs, literally going to die in the next few weeks... My brother had a teacher at school who was disappeared... A friend's Dad was killed by the so called war veterans. There were lots of things like that. People were afraid. If you were outspoken there was a damn good chance you'd end up dead, or at least the government were successful in spreading that impression. Government ministers had outrageous lavish lifestyles... and a correspondingly high chance of dying in a car accident.

In all this... people said "God is angry with us, God has abandoned us, we have been evil, we must try harder" I heard this on numerous occasions from numerous people. The dominant Christianity in Zim is either Catholicism or the "VaPostori", the Apostolics. It's a mixture of Christianity and the local preChristian religion, such as Christianity has thrived on for centuries. They may not be run of the mill Christians but by damn they know their scripture. Anyway, some big new churches were built, right at the height of the madness... The one great thing about the VaPostori at least is that they meet outdoors and don't waste time on buildings.
Quote:No...you blame the man himself. You can ask, "Why did God allow this to happen," and that is a valid question if you believe God could have prevented it. But let me ask you this: how do you know that God has not prevented many, many things in your life?

Can you say you know that the bad things that have happened to you, your country, or those you know...are the only possible tragedies? Is it not possible that but for God's intervention, you and I would be in a far worse state than we are right now? I can say for myself apart from God's intervention I would probably already be dead.
Your God is not worthy of worship. If I thought he existed my one sane response would be to declare war on him. The rest of your post only confirms this to me. I'm afraid I can't respond to each point individually, I don't have the patience or interest.

Hello MD, thanks for the response, and due to the fact that I am about out of time for this visit, I will just condense the response and ask a few questions, and make a few observations.

It would seem to me that you have been convinced that Zim is Christian and while I would not think to question the sincerity of those that hold to beliefs that lead them to call themselves Christians, I would point out that you seem to consider both of the "primary" groups of Zim to be Christian, without question. The vaPostori are an interesting group, and I would be curious as to whether your family followed a particular group, or if perhaps your father led in doctrinal understanding through his own study. It is not unheard of for some to depart from formal "worship," or attendance of organized fellowship based upon doctrinal fellowship, and to be honest, it would show (to me) the power of God at work in the heart of man who has read scripture and disagreed with the doctrine of the groups that have pre-eminence in a society.

In other words, your father is a man I would very much like to speak with. I believe firmly that God can instruct man...despite the influence of his religion, and the forums themslves show this to be true.

I will not draw this out too far, but I would ask you, in remembering that which you were instructed in, have you ever compared those things with any of the commentary that might have been presented from other sources, and if so, have you considered the differences or similarities? You express what comes across as acceptance as a child that "this is what Christianity is," and I would ask how the practice and doctrine of your countrymen compares to that which have been exposed to in other parts of the world?

Okay, that's it. You stae very clearly this is not one of your favorite topics, but understand that I do appreciate the chance to discuss these things with someone who's background has a significantly different cultural upbringing. Your views could play well into the how and why of the sometime confusing question, "Why are there so many different denominations?" It would also give insight to the suggestion that because a group call themselves Christians, does not necessarily mean that the doctrine and practice can be found outside of man's tradition, much less in scripture itself.

GTY
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-06-2012, 11:25 AM
RE: Why Christianity is the most popular religion
(19-06-2012 08:57 AM)S.T. Ranger Wrote:  It would seem to me that you have been convinced that Zim is Christian and while I would not think to question the sincerity of those that hold to beliefs that lead them to call themselves Christians, I would point out that you seem to consider both of the "primary" groups of Zim to be Christian, without question.
I don't play around with definitions. If I ask the guy "are you Christian?" and he says "yes" then he's a Christian. Why would he lie? Surely he is best placed to judge.

Quote:The vaPostori are an interesting group, and I would be curious as to whether your family followed a particular group, or if perhaps your father led in doctrinal understanding through his own study.
We were / are just run of the mill protestants - Church of England in South Africa, if you must know, which interestingly enough is a separate institution from the Church of England proper, nevertheless the CoE proper are *also* to be found in SA / Zim, confusing the pants off everybody. CoE SA and CoE have a whole different set of bishops and attendant clergymen each. It's completely bananas. Of course I never had to bother with any of that Big Grin

Quote:I will not draw this out too far, but I would ask you, in remembering that which you were instructed in, have you ever compared those things with any of the commentary that might have been presented from other sources, and if so, have you considered the differences or similarities? You express what comes across as acceptance as a child that "this is what Christianity is," and I would ask how the practice and doctrine of your countrymen compares to that which have been exposed to in other parts of the world?
Think of your local church. Those are the kind of Christians you will find in Zim, except more of them, and very passionate about what they believe... (and about what you don't believe Dodgy ) That's why I say Zim is one of the most Christian countries... I don't know where you live, I've heard America is similarly crazy Tongue Practice and doctrine seems fairly similar to everywhere else, apart from the VaPostori, who are a little bit crazy - there have been epidemics due to their refusal to take medicine etc.

It occurs to me to apologize to Buddy Christ for taking over his thread, if you still read it at all BC...

ST: You're right, I have little desire to continue. However, thanks for the discussion. Go well Smile
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-06-2012, 02:55 PM
RE: Why Christianity is the most popular religion
(19-06-2012 11:25 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(19-06-2012 08:57 AM)S.T. Ranger Wrote:  It would seem to me that you have been convinced that Zim is Christian and while I would not think to question the sincerity of those that hold to beliefs that lead them to call themselves Christians, I would point out that you seem to consider both of the "primary" groups of Zim to be Christian, without question.
I don't play around with definitions. If I ask the guy "are you Christian?" and he says "yes" then he's a Christian. Why would he lie? Surely he is best placed to judge.

Quote:The vaPostori are an interesting group, and I would be curious as to whether your family followed a particular group, or if perhaps your father led in doctrinal understanding through his own study.
We were / are just run of the mill protestants - Church of England in South Africa, if you must know, which interestingly enough is a separate institution from the Church of England proper, nevertheless the CoE proper are *also* to be found in SA / Zim, confusing the pants off everybody. CoE SA and CoE have a whole different set of bishops and attendant clergymen each. It's completely bananas. Of course I never had to bother with any of that Big Grin

Quote:I will not draw this out too far, but I would ask you, in remembering that which you were instructed in, have you ever compared those things with any of the commentary that might have been presented from other sources, and if so, have you considered the differences or similarities? You express what comes across as acceptance as a child that "this is what Christianity is," and I would ask how the practice and doctrine of your countrymen compares to that which have been exposed to in other parts of the world?
Think of your local church. Those are the kind of Christians you will find in Zim, except more of them, and very passionate about what they believe... (and about what you don't believe Dodgy ) That's why I say Zim is one of the most Christian countries... I don't know where you live, I've heard America is similarly crazy Tongue Practice and doctrine seems fairly similar to everywhere else, apart from the VaPostori, who are a little bit crazy - there have been epidemics due to their refusal to take medicine etc.

It occurs to me to apologize to Buddy Christ for taking over his thread, if you still read it at all BC...

ST: You're right, I have little desire to continue. However, thanks for the discussion. Go well Smile

I appreciate the response, MD. So I will not draw it out, as I said, but will just ask you to consider some underlying issues that I see as significant:

1-the belief that if one calls themelf a Christian...this should not be questioned. Despite the fact that scripture calls the believer to examine the claims of those that call themselves Christians or stand in a place of teacher.

2-your surprise at your own "bitterness." Which I believe to the single greatest motivating force for those that have enmity against a group, whether they be believer or non-believer. I would just ask that you consider this.

And that's it. This will probably be my last reponse to you for a while, as I have determined that I will just spend a (forum) day with you guys, and then...get outta yer hair. I don't want you to think that I have no respect for the purpose of this forum and that many may see this as a "sanctuary" of sorts, even as I would when I fellowship with other believers. So my intent is not to harangue those that are here, so, this seems good practice for me to follow.

And I have already over-run the time I meant to stay here. Just know that I have enjoyed it, and there are really no hard feelings for those my antagonists...lol.

So, Lord willing, I will return one day if it seems good to the Lord. But for now, I hope the best for you and yours, and I will see you (maybe) again one day.

GTY
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes S.T. Ranger's post
11-01-2014, 05:21 PM
RE: Why Christianity is the most popular religion
Well what do you expect.... this was written 2,000 years ago.... They tried to translate the best they could....

SmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-01-2014, 12:47 AM
RE: Why Christianity is the most popular religion
What is up with all my old ass threads being dug up? I buried them, found my peace, moved on, and then 3 years later I find my rotted decomposing thread sitting at the dinner table, a macabre grin on its decayed face, mocking me and fraying my sanity. The hollow pits where sightless eyes should rest are instead filled with freshly excavated soil and my dining room reeks of spoiled meat left to rot in a dumpster on a sweltering summer afternoon. It is the corpse of that which I thought dead, but what is this? Do my ears deceive me? There! There! It is the beating of its hideous heart!

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Buddy Christ's post
12-01-2014, 01:33 AM
RE: Why Christianity is the most popular religion
Well really there's not that much else going on. I'd take it as flattery.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: