Why Christianity is the most popular religion
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
30-05-2012, 02:07 PM (This post was last modified: 30-05-2012 02:18 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Why Christianity is the most popular religion
(29-05-2012 06:51 PM)S.T. Ranger Wrote:  
(28-05-2012 08:02 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The development of the concept that Yeshua was a divine being was a long, and complex one. Each of the gospels exhibits different concepts of "divinity", and when Yeshua assumed his divine status. "Son of god" did not mean "divine". If Yeshua had claimed divinty, (which he did not), he would have been stoned, on the spot. The "die in your place" stuff, (the salvation paradigm), was grafted later, after Paul added it, (after his fighting with James about it), and was not part of the original newly forming cult. Mark, written first, does not mention "salvation". Paul, written next, has evidence of it. Paul got it from the Greek Mystery cults. Where did you study Archaeology, and Biblical Form Criticism ?


While there are certain cults and anti-biblical based agendas that would have you to believe this, scripture is clear that God manifest in the flesh.
We know Him as Jesus the Christ. This is very clear in scripture for those willing to look at it.

God bless.

You didn't answer the question. After you answer the question, name the cults, and the agendas. Then please explain how the Divinity School at Harvard and the Princeton Seminary and Union Theological Seminary are anti-biblical. Then please explain why your god said anything at all in your scripture if she wasn't going to bother to be specific enough not to have the "divinity" appear consistent as an intellectual concept. Why did she have 4 DIFFERENT gospels say 4 different things about the divinity, if the differences were not important, and if the gospels were "inspired", or is that just a pleasant fiction ? Was she trying to trick humanity ? Also, did you mean to say "god IS manifest in the flesh", (or did you say what you mean ?) or should we take it from your English useage that, that also, along with your Biblcal history, is somewhat limited. Does your "clear in scripture for those willing to look at it" mean that you have looked at things from all sides, and did at one point look at "scriptures" objectively, BEFORE you started using them as faith documents - not subject to rational scrutiny, or have you always exempted them from rational scrutiny ? Or does "clear in scripture" mean that if one does not come up with a definitiion "similar" to yours, (the old "I know the truth..you just don't understand" thing) you judge them to be in error ? If so, again please tell us, what qualification you have to declare that others are in error " Does god talk to you, and tell you things ? Thank you very much. God bless.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
30-05-2012, 02:38 PM
RE: Why Christianity is the most popular religion
(30-05-2012 01:45 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Morondog.

A bit of a digression perhaps, but in Canada there was a law called the Lord's Day Act that made Sunday (Sabbath) shopping illegal. It survived a Supreme Court challenge in 1982 but after the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms was introduced later in 1982, it wound up being struck down as a Charter violation in 1985. Nova Scotia resisted this ruling ostensibly until 2006, having introduced limited Sunday shopping before then but allowing full Sunday shopping after a 2006 Nova Scotia Supreme Court ruling. So clearly, in Canada at least, Christians didn't "change God's law" to allow Sunday shopping, a secular rights Charter (which is totally awesome by the way) forced the elimination of laws that made it illegal because the laws themselves were deemed illegal.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
What I mean is, how come 90% of self-professed Christians are happy to work on Saturday? Pretty sure that's a clear violation of scriptural law. Although to be fair ST Ranger himself might be one of those who does "keep the Sabbath holy" etc. Not worried about secular law. But valid point, thanks for clarification Smile and I mean... Sunday shopping illegal??? "Don't mess with that guy over there, he's a thug - Sunday shopper, lookit them Tesco tattoos." Tongue
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-05-2012, 02:58 PM
RE: Why Christianity is the most popular religion
Hey, Morondog.

Yeah, straight up illegal. I'm old enough that 24 hour a day, 7 day a week shopping still feels exotic. In the 80s, there were normal business hours and fuck all on Sunday. That's it. Before bank machines too. Ya kinda had to plan things out a little more.

In terms of the legislation in Canada, it pretty much forces you to open your business on Sunday if you want to remain competitive/in business.

There is one business in Montreal I can think of that observes the Sabbath and that's a theatre company that is Jewish (as opposed to a company that does Jewish theatre, although they do do that too and lol I just said doodoo). But their competition is much less direct and they are most certainly not retail. If you wanna see that show they're doing, they ain't doin it anywhere else. If you wanna buy retail and the store is closed, you go to the open one Cool

I'm sure there's Christians who are like whatevs, but, y'know.

Tesco eh? I think you just gave away your nationality Cool

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-05-2012, 12:44 AM
RE: Why Christianity is the most popular religion
(30-05-2012 02:58 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Morondog.

Yeah, straight up illegal. I'm old enough that 24 hour a day, 7 day a week shopping still feels exotic. In the 80s, there were normal business hours and fuck all on Sunday. That's it. Before bank machines too. Ya kinda had to plan things out a little more.

In terms of the legislation in Canada, it pretty much forces you to open your business on Sunday if you want to remain competitive/in business.

There is one business in Montreal I can think of that observes the Sabbath and that's a theatre company that is Jewish (as opposed to a company that does Jewish theatre, although they do do that too and lol I just said doodoo). But their competition is much less direct and they are most certainly not retail. If you wanna see that show they're doing, they ain't doin it anywhere else. If you wanna buy retail and the store is closed, you go to the open one Cool

I'm sure there's Christians who are like whatevs, but, y'know.

Tesco eh? I think you just gave away your nationality Cool

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

Funny thing, didn't quite give it away Tongue Just I happen to be in UK at the moment and I didn't think anyone would recognize the South African supermarket chains Tongue Realised I missed this:

Quote:forced the elimination of laws that made it illegal because the laws themselves were deemed illegal.

That's pretty $&^% sweet hey ? Secular rights charter rocks!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-05-2012, 06:44 AM
RE: Why Christianity is the most popular religion
(29-05-2012 06:53 PM)S.T. Ranger Wrote:  
(28-05-2012 08:18 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Ain't nobody dying in my place. Tongue

That concept is asinine, wrong, and non-scriptural. So there. Tongue

Sorry, but the only choice you have is to reject or accept, you do not have the power to decide whether Jesus will or will not die for you.
And...I'm going to resist the urge to return the raspberry.
lol
God bless.
Actually, I remember standing before "the creator of the universe" and accepting the title of prophet - that's the "accepting" I did - I wuz hornswoggled. Tongue

I also remember being with Paul at Corinth and knowing there was no such animal as "Jesus Christ." So there! Tongue

Don't be afraid of the raspberry. Wink

[Image: ZF1ZJ4M.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-05-2012, 12:24 PM
RE: Why Christianity is the most popular religion
(29-05-2012 07:18 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(29-05-2012 06:00 PM)S.T. Ranger Wrote:  No wishing needed there, big guy...lol. ... But, as I said, no wishing needed...it is a done deal.

Bah big fella, I don't reject God, I couldn't give less of a shit about God.

This refutes what I said?

So, you admit...you didn't ask the soldiers that died in the WWs to die for you?

(29-05-2012 07:18 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  But if you're gonna base your faith on some sort of bullshit promise of a postmortem preservation of identity, you ought to at least do due diligence and make sure there's some sorta mechanism of action in place where that is at least conceivable and imaginable. After that, it will have to pass further scrutiny of whether the MOA is plausible and tenable. Personally, I have yet to find an MOA which is even imaginable. ...

Could you...just think about that statement a little?

lol

You did mean to say faith, correct?

(29-05-2012 07:18 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Now if you want to come at me with a metaphysics where "You're temporary, I'm temporary, we're all temporary, everything is temporary. Goddam boy, just grow a sack and deal with it.", I'm all ears. Wink

You have a hangup with metaphysics...and particular anatomy. I've noticed that about you...lol.

So you also, will speak for me?

As a matter of fact, I am a firm believer that all men, in the spiritual sense...are immortal. I do not believe that the spirit of man ever ceases to pass out of existence.

(29-05-2012 07:18 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(29-05-2012 06:53 PM)S.T. Ranger Wrote:  Sorry, but the only choice you have is to reject or accept, you do not have the power to decide whether Jesus will or will not die for you.

Utter and complete nonsense. I read the Red Letters regularly for inspiration and direction.

What has that to do with something that has happened in the past? You cannot make the decision.

THink about that. Whether you accept the Biblical account or not, you play no part in that which it records God as doing.

Just as you played no part in the efforts of soldiers in the WWs.

(29-05-2012 07:18 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I accept the Golden Rule as the only rule.

Could you give me the girlyman (and I don't know why, but this always is pronounced in my mind witha Jamaican accent...girlymon. Maybe its a German accent...I don't know...lol) teaching and commentary on exactly what he sees as "the golden rule?"

(29-05-2012 07:18 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Jesus never said he died for me.

Sure He did. He said He would lay down His life for all men.

That includes you.

(29-05-2012 07:18 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  But Jesus did tell me that I am divine and we collectively are God.

There are a number of sects that would agree with your interpretation. I cannot, though.

The belief that man is or will be divine in the sense that he becomes a god of sorts is false doctrine. Keep in mind that is just my opinion from my own study.

(29-05-2012 07:18 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I'd wager that this atheist lives a life much closer to that of the Christ than most Christians. ...

Spoke to a young man yesterday that grew up in a "Christian" household, only to watch his father commit adultery. It has been said that the single greatest cause of atheism...is Christians. I am inclined to think they were on to something when they said that.

However, if we modified your statement to "I'd wager that this atheist lives a life much closer to that of the Christ than most of those that call themselves Christians," it is possible that you might be speaking truth, and we might better be able to place the saying above in a truer context:

"It has been said that the single greatest cause of atheism...are those that call themselves Christians."

(29-05-2012 07:18 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I mean how can they, they've been taught to be afraid of their own shadows.

Just not an accuate description of Christian faith:



2 Timothy 1:7

King James Version (KJV)

7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.


Kinda trumps "do unto others before they do you," doesn't it (this is humor, by the way...well, almost).


(29-05-2012 07:29 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  merged

Yeah, me too.

God bless.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-05-2012, 12:31 PM
RE: Why Christianity is the most popular religion
(29-05-2012 07:31 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  
(29-05-2012 06:40 PM)S.T. Ranger Wrote:  Again, with the aforementioned groups, we can see that their doctrine teaches a works-based religion, the term "works-based" actually qualifies the group as religion. Take Islam, also, as an example. Would you consider this religion to be "overly-restrictive?"

I'm told this is the fastest growing religion in the world, and I personally see Islam as the greatest threat this world has ever seen concerning not only religious groups...but in general.

I would see moderate Islam as being about as socialised as moderate Christianity. It's extremes seem more extreme right now and perhaps more prevalent. It is also settling into new societies in a way that many members of western islamic congregations are either first or second generation immigrants in the West. This differs from Christianity in the West where most church members are likely to be many generations more integrated into the society. I think that introduces cultural opportunities, but also some short term risks due to the lesser integration.

(29-05-2012 06:40 PM)S.T. Ranger Wrote:  Been where? You were a born again believer?

Good. Love to talk to you in more detail. If this is what is meant, can I ask what denomination you were a part of? I ask because I am a believer in the "impact" doctrine has upon those that believe they are saved (no pun intended).

I have been a member of Baptist, Church of Christ, and Christian and Missionary Alliance churches over my lifetime.

from earlier in the thread:
(28-05-2012 05:55 PM)S.T. Ranger Wrote:  And just in case you are asking that you might question my statement that not all that is called "christian" is actually Christian, that is based upon the teaching of scripture.

"You shall know them by their fruit." This is a familiar teaching in scripture, in the Old and New Testament. It is just basic knowledge, a teaching that is intended, even as the creattion of the Nation of Israel was, as a means to separate those that belong to God from those that do not. Counterfeit believers are prophecied in scripture, and we are told to have discernment in this matter.

(29-05-2012 06:40 PM)S.T. Ranger Wrote:  First I would have to ask, "The average what?" I assume you meant "The super spiritual Christians," those that think they are better than other Christians.

But can I suggest that this is actually commanded...against, in scripture. Those that do this, elevate themselves above their brothers and sisters, are sinning against God. If you are an athist this will mean little to you, but for the believer, this is a serious issue. Christ is to be our example, and while the process of being conformed to the image of Christ can be a very lengthy (and in fact a lifetime work) process, this is the work that God seeks to do in the individuals life. Learning to yield to His guidance is a difficult process.


This is pride.

However, I will still say that as the parable of the soils teaches, it is more likely that those that fall away were never born again to begin with. Those that are born again and fal into sin will face being chastized and even physical death.

God take's His name seriously, and those that say they are representatives of His...better be.

What I mean was the average Christian. I meant that in any group, Christians included, one has a tendency to think oneself to be just a little above the average. From that vantage point it is easy to identify anyone who does a little less bible study than you, or participates in a fewer church activities as simply playing along - perhaps not even a "true" Christian. It's easy to scan the congregation and think "I'll know them by their fruits". It's easy to watch a news report about a Christian doing something that you would never do and say to yourself "They're not a true Christian. If they had only followed the example of Jesus they would have done...". When someone falls away from the faith you're sure it isn't for a good reason, because you can't see a good reason. Instead, they must either have fallen into sin or must have never been a true Christian in the first place. It's easy to imagine that you understand the internal world of another.

(29-05-2012 06:40 PM)S.T. Ranger Wrote:  Not sure about this fallacy, never heard of it. Perhaps it is mentioned in a post I haven't gotten to yet?

It's the idea that you can classify people who self-identify as a particular thing are not really that thing, primarily because they seem like they are less committed to that thing than we are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/No_True_Scotsman



Hafnof, I appreciate the response, and I am short on time right now, so I will just respond to one aspect:


Quote:I would see moderate Islam as being about as socialised as moderate Christianity. It's extremes seem more extreme right now and perhaps more prevalent. It is also settling into new societies in a way that many members of western islamic congregations are either first or second generation immigrants in the West. This differs from Christianity in the West where most church members are likely to be many generations more integrated into the society. I think that introduces cultural opportunities, but also some short term risks due to the lesser integration.



You include the "extremes" as part of the religion, but I would just ask you: can both the moderates and the extremes truly follow the same God, and hold the same doctrine?

One side has to be wrong as to what their religion and their sacred texts actually teach, right?

I would suggest the beginnings of Islam more closely resemble the extremists than those that have westernized or, watered down their religion to make it more palatable to the world around them.

So what do we do with them? How do we determine which ones represent the teachings of Islam better?

Again, thanks.

God bless.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-05-2012, 12:32 PM
RE: Why Christianity is the most popular religion
(30-05-2012 08:16 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(29-05-2012 06:47 PM)S.T. Ranger Wrote:  I do not take the position that everything in scripture is to be taken literally. We see examples of sarcasm, hyperbole, symbolism, metaphor...the question is, determining what is to be taken literally.
All you do is raising further questions. Who is supposed to determine what is to be taken literally? Can you think of a single person that is (from a religious point of view) allowed to change anything at the Word of God? (Revelation 22, 18-19)

Quote:On the contrary, 99% of scripture is clear as to it's literal intent. The other 1% is what theologians like to debate over...lol.
Would you care to elaborate and provide evidence for your claims?

There seems to be a little confusion: I am not the one making claims...you are.
Again, if you want to look at the passages, verses, or sayings that you are not sure are to be taken literally or not, let me know.
God bless.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-05-2012, 12:37 PM (This post was last modified: 31-05-2012 01:02 PM by lucradis.)
RE: Why Christianity is the most popular religion
Hey Ghost,

I'm also Canadian and lived through the 80's. You are correct good sir. However where I live now things haven't changed as much. Most places are still closed on Sundays and the ones that are open minus gas stations, and Walmart, open late and close early. Banks have been changing lately over here and some are actually open on Sundays like in other parts of the world.

I envy those people living elsewhere who don't have more churches than anything else.

And just so everyone is aware I have no idea what the majority of this thread is about and don't wish to partake, I just cheated and jumped in at this page.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-05-2012, 12:46 PM
RE: Why Christianity is the most popular religion
(30-05-2012 01:13 PM)morondog Wrote:  Could you provide the clear literal intent behind the fact that OT laws are clearly stated to be eternal and unchanging and suddenly 'cos some dude got nailed to a bit of wood you don't have to kill people for working on the Sabbath any more (BTW Sabbath = 10 commandment law, pretty damn important, so why people work on a Saturday? They *changed God's Law*!!!!!!! <- multiple exclamation marks, a sign of genius!!!!)

Would you like to discuss the progressive revelation of God's word?

Quote:(BTW Sabbath = 10 commandment law,

Not quite accurate: sabbath is used to refer to several things in scripture, but does not equal "the Ten Commandments (law).

Quote:so why people work on a Saturday?

While the observance of the Sabbath was meant to kept holy, and no work was to be performed on this day, the rigid interpretation of religious leaders turned this into, surprise surprise...a rigid interpretation which was used to exert power over people.

Christ made it clear that adherence to the tradition of men, which had corrupted the law (because it's intent was not understood), did not mean that common sense goes out the window. Say for instance a loved one was in danger and it was necessary to "work" in order to rescue them from death, God would not have held a man guilty of breaking the law because they did so.

The Levitical Priesthood, as Christ pointed out...worked on the Sabbath. It is best, I feel, to recognize that when the Lord did punish the man for picking up sticks, it was not for the work itself, but for the man's disregard for the command of God. A similar instance would be Esau's despising of his birthright. Not the trade he made. Would he have come out better if he had traded it for gold?



They *changed God's Law*!!!!!!!

Actually, most Christians will tell you that the Sabbath is still the last day of the week, Saturday. No-one has canged that. But for the Christian, every day is to be kept holy, not just one particular day, as it is common for man to fall into. Even today, the nominal believer will be "a differnent person" on Sunday, living like the devil the rest of the week. What is missed is the actual intent of scriptural (and Christian) teaching, to where the performance is nothing other than...religion.

Hey, thanks for the response.

God bless.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: