Why Conspiracies are stupid.
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16-11-2016, 11:21 AM (This post was last modified: 16-11-2016 11:26 AM by Celestial_Wonder.)
RE: Why Conspiracies are stupid.
(16-11-2016 11:05 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(16-11-2016 10:37 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Here.

I asked for your explanation, you sent me a link.
I would prefer to talk to you and not to your links.

I view Fascism as something akin to Nazism, which used fear to control people, actively sought to misinform people, the preaching of nationalism, and all the while spewing intolerance of others based on religion, race, culture, or political ideology. The government of Israel holds many of these characteristics.

(16-11-2016 11:17 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(16-11-2016 11:05 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Basically I'm telling you today is my first day off for the week and I'm not spending an hour listening to some podcast. Time is a very precious commodity. Of which we have so little in our finite lives.


I'm just trying to get atheists to act more like Carl Sagan, Carl Sagan for a lot of us is what led us to our disbelief in a god. Or at least he certainly was for me, and then Richard Dawkins comes by and starts telling everyone religion is this and religion is that, and how we should treat religious people and I think Dawkins' approach is wrong.

A horse will never come to eat from your hand if you beat it every time it approaches you.


The absence of evidence isn't the evidence of absence, in this atheists also have no evidence to substantiate their disbelief in a god. So the big bang theory at its core level is a matter of opinion because neither side has evidence on what made it happen. It is literally the perfect theory religion could ask for.

Let me guess you are the gallant and noble horse charging to the rescue of ill informed and under educated atheists and getting beaten back ? Consider
In your dreams matey Drinking Beverage

No the horse represents the religious people. I used a horse as an example because they can be very gentle creatures, but they can also act out of fear.

Also you missed your chance.

Instead of saying 'in your dreams'

You should have said, 'get off your high horse' Wink
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16-11-2016, 11:36 AM
RE: Why Conspiracies are stupid.
From what I've seen religious people and yourself are not exactly shrinking violets filled with fear (hellfire and damnation excepted) if I ever find one I'll be sure to let you knowDrinking Beverage
Last comment actually quite witty maybe there's hope for you yet Big Grin
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16-11-2016, 11:46 AM
RE: Why Conspiracies are stupid.
(16-11-2016 11:36 AM)adey67 Wrote:  From what I've seen religious people and yourself are not exactly shrinking violets filled with fear (hellfire and damnation excepted) if I ever find one I'll be sure to let you knowDrinking Beverage
Last comment actually quite witty maybe there's hope for you yet Big Grin

I'm not an expert on human psychology, but on a subconscious level, I believe we have a great deal more fear than we realize. theists and atheists alike.

(16-11-2016 11:10 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(16-11-2016 11:05 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Basically I'm telling you today is my first day off for the week and I'm not spending an hour listening to some podcast. Time is a very precious commodity. Of which we have so little in our finite lives.


I'm just trying to get atheists to act more like Carl Sagan, Carl Sagan for a lot of us is what led us to our disbelief in a god. Or at least he certainly was for me, and then Richard Dawkins comes by and starts telling everyone religion is this and religion is that, and how we should treat religious people and I think Dawkins' approach is wrong.

A horse will never come to eat from your hand if you beat it every time it approaches you.


The absence of evidence isn't the evidence of absence, in this atheists also have no evidence to substantiate their disbelief in a god. So the big bang theory at its core level is a matter of opinion because neither side has evidence on what made it happen. It is literally the perfect theory religion could ask for.

"The absence of evidence isn't the evidence of absence...
I never said it was.

...in this atheists also have no evidence to substantiate their disbelief in a god."
Incorrect. A paucity of evidence is reason to not believe in something.

"So the big bang theory at its core level is a matter of opinion because neither side has evidence on what made it happen."
You appear to be grossly misinformed about the Big Bang Theory. You should remedy that instead of saying such ignorant things.

"It is literally the perfect theory religion could ask for."
Do you believe it an insult to label science or scientific theories as "religious?" Is that why you keep trying to equate science or scientific theory with religion?


Once again, what is the definition of "religion" you are using? It seems it only exists as a label of insult for you.

Do you mean to say that I am using religion as a label to insult others or that it insults me? Because I'm not exactly seeking to insult others comparing it to religion in the sense how some Atheists treat it, because I don't view religion as something that is inherently bad but something that is occurs naturally.

My definition of religion - a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith.
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16-11-2016, 11:52 AM
RE: Why Conspiracies are stupid.
(16-11-2016 11:46 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(16-11-2016 11:36 AM)adey67 Wrote:  From what I've seen religious people and yourself are not exactly shrinking violets filled with fear (hellfire and damnation excepted) if I ever find one I'll be sure to let you knowDrinking Beverage
Last comment actually quite witty maybe there's hope for you yet Big Grin

I'm not an expert on human psychology, but on a subconscious level, I believe we have a great deal more fear than we realize. theists and atheists alike.

(16-11-2016 11:10 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "The absence of evidence isn't the evidence of absence...
I never said it was.

...in this atheists also have no evidence to substantiate their disbelief in a god."
Incorrect. A paucity of evidence is reason to not believe in something.

"So the big bang theory at its core level is a matter of opinion because neither side has evidence on what made it happen."
You appear to be grossly misinformed about the Big Bang Theory. You should remedy that instead of saying such ignorant things.

"It is literally the perfect theory religion could ask for."
Do you believe it an insult to label science or scientific theories as "religious?" Is that why you keep trying to equate science or scientific theory with religion?


Once again, what is the definition of "religion" you are using? It seems it only exists as a label of insult for you.

Do you mean to say that I am using religion as a label to insult others or that it insults me? Because I'm not exactly seeking to insult others comparing it to religion in the sense how some Atheists treat it, because I don't view religion as something that is inherently bad but something that is occurs naturally.

My definition of religion - a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith.

Everyone has fear mate, its how you deal with it and what lengths you will go to deal with it that counts, and as far as I can tell atheists face it head on without recourse to an invisible sky daddy or a post mortem Valhalla of eternal bliss.
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16-11-2016, 11:54 AM
RE: Why Conspiracies are stupid.
(16-11-2016 11:46 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(16-11-2016 11:36 AM)adey67 Wrote:  From what I've seen religious people and yourself are not exactly shrinking violets filled with fear (hellfire and damnation excepted) if I ever find one I'll be sure to let you knowDrinking Beverage
Last comment actually quite witty maybe there's hope for you yet Big Grin

I'm not an expert on human psychology, but on a subconscious level, I believe we have a great deal more fear than we realize. theists and atheists alike.

(16-11-2016 11:10 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "The absence of evidence isn't the evidence of absence...
I never said it was.

...in this atheists also have no evidence to substantiate their disbelief in a god."
Incorrect. A paucity of evidence is reason to not believe in something.

"So the big bang theory at its core level is a matter of opinion because neither side has evidence on what made it happen."
You appear to be grossly misinformed about the Big Bang Theory. You should remedy that instead of saying such ignorant things.

"It is literally the perfect theory religion could ask for."
Do you believe it an insult to label science or scientific theories as "religious?" Is that why you keep trying to equate science or scientific theory with religion?


Once again, what is the definition of "religion" you are using? It seems it only exists as a label of insult for you.

Do you mean to say that I am using religion as a label to insult others or that it insults me? Because I'm not exactly seeking to insult others comparing it to religion in the sense how some Atheists treat it, because I don't view religion as something that is inherently bad but something that is occurs naturally.

My definition of religion - a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith.


"Do you mean to say that I am using religion as a label to insult others or that it insults me?"
I'm asking why you keep applying the label to science and scientific theories and atheists.

"Because I'm not exactly seeking to insult others comparing it to religion in the sense how some Atheists treat it, because I don't view religion as something that is inherently bad but something that is occurs naturally."
Once again, what "some Atheists" are you referring to?

"My definition of religion - a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith."
Right, so you've constructed a new definition of religion to fit your straw men.

What is "faith" to you? Is it of any benefit to discussion when you've your own definitions of words that no other person would accept, thereby causing discussions to be filled with confusion because what you are trying to say is muddled by the incorrectly defined terms you use?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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16-11-2016, 12:00 PM
RE: Why Conspiracies are stupid.
(16-11-2016 11:52 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(16-11-2016 11:46 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  I'm not an expert on human psychology, but on a subconscious level, I believe we have a great deal more fear than we realize. theists and atheists alike.


Do you mean to say that I am using religion as a label to insult others or that it insults me? Because I'm not exactly seeking to insult others comparing it to religion in the sense how some Atheists treat it, because I don't view religion as something that is inherently bad but something that is occurs naturally.

My definition of religion - a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith.

Everyone has fear mate, its how you deal with it and what lengths you will go to deal with it that counts, and as far as I can tell atheists face it head on without recourse to an invisible sky daddy or a post mortem Valhalla of eternal bliss.

Which one do you fear more? The thought of dying and never being aware again? Or the thought of being reborn again and again as something else for all eternity which according to Buddhists is the same exact thing as eternal suffering because to them living is to suffer.

I'd have to go with the latter as the one I'm more afraid of yet it is also the one I believe in a very very loose manner. I mean I wouldn't be me so I wouldn't suffer for all eternity, but that a state of awareness that I would perceive as 'my own' would recur for all eternity. Eternity is a very very long time.
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16-11-2016, 12:06 PM
RE: Why Conspiracies are stupid.
(16-11-2016 11:13 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  He certainly seems to think he has the authority on the existence of god.

Then take it up with him.

(16-11-2016 11:13 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  So did Carl Sagan, and Carl Sagan never acted like he did, and Carl Sagan has reached a multitude more people than Dawkins could ever hope to.

Once again, talk to Dawkins.


(16-11-2016 11:13 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  'these people' is a generalization.

You have done nothing but generalize since you got here. And if you look at my statement, "these people" is in direct reference to the religious fanatics that are acting against education.

If I had said "these people" in regards to theists that would be a generalization.

Or do you have your own definition of generalization?

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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16-11-2016, 12:07 PM
RE: Why Conspiracies are stupid.
(16-11-2016 11:54 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(16-11-2016 11:46 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  I'm not an expert on human psychology, but on a subconscious level, I believe we have a great deal more fear than we realize. theists and atheists alike.


Do you mean to say that I am using religion as a label to insult others or that it insults me? Because I'm not exactly seeking to insult others comparing it to religion in the sense how some Atheists treat it, because I don't view religion as something that is inherently bad but something that is occurs naturally.

My definition of religion - a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith.


"Do you mean to say that I am using religion as a label to insult others or that it insults me?"
I'm asking why you keep applying the label to science and scientific theories and atheists.

"Because I'm not exactly seeking to insult others comparing it to religion in the sense how some Atheists treat it, because I don't view religion as something that is inherently bad but something that is occurs naturally."
Once again, what "some Atheists" are you referring to?

Mainly to describe the behavior of the majority of 'Dawkinists' if we were going to start adding more definitions towards individual atheists at least. I think Dawkinist is allowable?

Quote:"My definition of religion - a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith."
Right, so you've constructed a new definition of religion to fit your straw men.

What is "faith" to you? Is it of any benefit to discussion when you've your own definitions of words that no other person would accept, thereby causing discussions to be filled with confusion because what you are trying to say is muddled by the incorrectly defined terms you use?

The definition is from merriam-websters online dictionary.

Full Definition of religion
1
a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion>
b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2
: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3
archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4
: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith


and here's one of the definitions for faith by Merriam-Webster this is the definition I'm using in these examples.

Faith - something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>
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16-11-2016, 12:12 PM
RE: Why Conspiracies are stupid.
(16-11-2016 11:46 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  My definition of religion - a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith.

I reject that definition in preference to the accepted definitions already in use.

The definitions in use are accepted by believers and non-believers alike.
The definitions are accurate.
There is no viable reason for redefining the word.
The proposed definition is both inaccurate and confusing.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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16-11-2016, 12:14 PM
RE: Why Conspiracies are stupid.
(16-11-2016 12:00 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(16-11-2016 11:52 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Everyone has fear mate, its how you deal with it and what lengths you will go to deal with it that counts, and as far as I can tell atheists face it head on without recourse to an invisible sky daddy or a post mortem Valhalla of eternal bliss.

Which one do you fear more? The thought of dying and never being aware again? Or the thought of being reborn again and again as something else for all eternity which according to Buddhists is the same exact thing as eternal suffering because to them living is to suffer.

I'd have to go with the latter as the one I'm more afraid of yet it is also the one I believe in a very very loose manner. I mean I wouldn't be me so I wouldn't suffer for all eternity, but that a state of awareness that I would perceive as 'my own' would recur for all eternity. Eternity is a very very long time.

The over abundance of anything including life means it cannot be fully appreciated. Since becoming atheist I no longer fear death and non existence . An eternity of life to me sounds horrendous everything that can be accomplished will be and therefore there is nothing left but mindless everlasting existance.
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