Why Conspiracies are stupid.
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15-11-2016, 03:05 PM
RE: Why Conspiracies are stupid.
(15-11-2016 02:40 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  That's because I don't believe in fantastical conspiracies theories. Conspiracies are pretty straightforward, I've provided ample evidence to prove that people commit conspiracies all the time.

And no one has denied that they do.

Quote:If you don't want to even remotely consider the possibility then that conspiracies theories have substance to them then at this point there's nothing I can do for you, you'd be a victim of your own irrationality and that is not my responsibility.

When people talk of 'conspiracy theories' it is in reference to the outlandish ones, not actual conspiracies.

Quote:And remember how people in the cold war (hippies) said for ages that the government was trying to mind control people? That was Mk Ultra.

Since it didn't come to light until 1975, hippies were not talking about MKUltra.

Quote:As for the Holocaust I've said it before I very much believe in the Holocaust.

So toss your erroneous sarcasm my way all you want. Even if it does nothing more than make you feel better about yourself.

Quote:He likes to play with definitions. He's trying to make any theory equal to a conspiracy theory. So he can equate the Big Bang Theory and The Big Foot Shot Kennedy after he Crashed at Roswell Theory.

Bigfoot and Roswelll are not even conspiracies. Well not likely Roswell at least, I mean at best it was just some secretive government spacecraft, maybe Russian, or United States origin, (Maybe UK?), or maaaaybe even a Nazi satellite.

Facepalm It was a weather balloon.

Quote:I mean the Nazis did have the technology to do so and they were the first ones to launch an object into space (IE the v2 rockets)

V2 rockets were not capable of going into space. Their maximum altitude was atmospheric.

Quote:but that wouldn't make it a conspiracy. I'm agnostic mostly on Roswell, I mean I can't know for sure what happened. But if it was an alien spacecraft we'd be far more advanced as a civilization than we are now.

There is no evidence of an alien spacecraft. There is evidence that it was a weather balloon.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-11-2016, 03:10 PM
RE: Why Conspiracies are stupid.
(15-11-2016 02:40 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Bigfoot and Roswelll are not even conspiracies. Well not likely Roswell at least, I mean at best it was just some secretive government spacecraft, maybe Russian, or United States origin, (Maybe UK?), or maaaaybe even a Nazi satellite. I mean the Nazis did have the technology to do so and they were the first ones to launch an object into space (IE the v2 rockets) but that wouldn't make it a conspiracy. I'm agnostic mostly on Roswell, I mean I can't know for sure what happened. But if it was an alien spacecraft we'd be far more advanced as a civilization than we are now.

Roswell was the wreckage of a balloon train hoisting listening devices into the upper atmosphere. Find a newspaper that has Mac Brazell's actual description of what he found. Only a desperate person would inflate string, basal wood, rubber and aluminum foil into an alien spaceship.
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15-11-2016, 03:11 PM
RE: Why Conspiracies are stupid.
(15-11-2016 03:05 PM)Chas Wrote:  There is no evidence of an alien spacecraft. There is evidence that it was a weather balloon.
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15-11-2016, 03:12 PM
RE: Why Conspiracies are stupid.
(14-11-2016 08:02 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(14-11-2016 07:59 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  You like to play with definitions, don't you?

EMBRACE THE NEW YOU!

Also yes, I like playing with definitions a lot.

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15-11-2016, 03:36 PM
RE: Why Conspiracies are stupid.
(15-11-2016 02:40 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(15-11-2016 11:53 AM)julep Wrote:  No, he's a conflationist. He equates conspiracies and secrets with conspiracy theories. Since the German government wasn't straightforward about what was happening with the Holocaust, the OP terms it a conspiracy and, by extension, the same as a conspiracy theory. OP doesn't attempt to understand or parse the difference between conspiracies (covert plans with some kind of goal, some successful and some not) and conspiracy theories (fantastical explanations of events).

His main aim seems to make himself look smart and others look stupid, but I think he's having the opposite effect. I think his vagueness and contradictions are the result of the OP's very fuzzy thinking and not intentional attempts to spring verbal traps.

That's because I don't believe in fantastical conspiracies theories. Conspiracies are pretty straightforward, I've provided ample evidence to prove that people commit conspiracies all the time. If you don't want to even remotely consider the possibility then that conspiracies theories have substance to them then at this point there's nothing I can do for you, you'd be a victim of your own irrationality and that is not my responsibility.

And remember how people in the cold war (hippies) said for ages that the government was trying to mind control people? That was Mk Ultra.

As for the Holocaust I've said it before I very much believe in the Holocaust.

So toss your erroneous sarcasm my way all you want. Even if it does nothing more than make you feel better about yourself.

Quote:He likes to play with definitions. He's trying to make any theory equal to a conspiracy theory. So he can equate the Big Bang Theory and The Big Foot Shot Kennedy after he Crashed at Roswell Theory.

Bigfoot and Roswelll are not even conspiracies. Well not likely Roswell at least, I mean at best it was just some secretive government spacecraft, maybe Russian, or United States origin, (Maybe UK?), or maaaaybe even a Nazi satellite. I mean the Nazis did have the technology to do so and they were the first ones to launch an object into space (IE the v2 rockets) but that wouldn't make it a conspiracy. I'm agnostic mostly on Roswell, I mean I can't know for sure what happened. But if it was an alien spacecraft we'd be far more advanced as a civilization than we are now.
Holocaust is not something that you can believe in it is fact, you could only accept that it happened or deny it.

Given the number of evidence belief is unnecesary. Using word "believe" imply some doubts about Shoah being real - no one believes that WWII took place, it's a fact beyond doubt. Just like Shoah.

We can only argue about specifics of it - exact number of victims is still in question as far as I'm aware, and it is likely that we will never get definitive answer, only provisional ones.


About your earlier posts - at least some people knew that Final Solution is taking place. For more see Harald Welzer "Soldiers".

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15-11-2016, 04:05 PM
RE: Why Conspiracies are stupid.
(15-11-2016 03:05 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-11-2016 02:40 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  That's because I don't believe in fantastical conspiracies theories. Conspiracies are pretty straightforward, I've provided ample evidence to prove that people commit conspiracies all the time.

And no one has denied that they do.

Quote:If you don't want to even remotely consider the possibility then that conspiracies theories have substance to them then at this point there's nothing I can do for you, you'd be a victim of your own irrationality and that is not my responsibility.

When people talk of 'conspiracy theories' it is in reference to the outlandish ones, not actual conspiracies.

Quote:And remember how people in the cold war (hippies) said for ages that the government was trying to mind control people? That was Mk Ultra.

Since it didn't come to light until 1975, hippies were not talking about MKUltra.

Quote:As for the Holocaust I've said it before I very much believe in the Holocaust.

So toss your erroneous sarcasm my way all you want. Even if it does nothing more than make you feel better about yourself.


Bigfoot and Roswelll are not even conspiracies. Well not likely Roswell at least, I mean at best it was just some secretive government spacecraft, maybe Russian, or United States origin, (Maybe UK?), or maaaaybe even a Nazi satellite.

Facepalm It was a weather balloon.

Quote:I mean the Nazis did have the technology to do so and they were the first ones to launch an object into space (IE the v2 rockets)

V2 rockets were not capable of going into space. Their maximum altitude was atmospheric.

Quote:but that wouldn't make it a conspiracy. I'm agnostic mostly on Roswell, I mean I can't know for sure what happened. But if it was an alien spacecraft we'd be far more advanced as a civilization than we are now.

There is no evidence of an alien spacecraft. There is evidence that it was a weather balloon.

"The highest known projectiles prior to the rockets of the 1940s were the shells of the Paris Gun, a type of German long-range siege gun, which reached at least 40 kilometers altitude during World War One.[6] Steps towards putting a human-made object into space were taken by German scientists during World War II while testing the V-2 rocket, which became the first human-made object in space on 3 October 1942 with the launching of the A-4. After the war, the U.S. used German scientists and their captured rockets in programs for both military and civilian research. The first scientific exploration from space was the cosmic radiation experiment launched by the U.S. on a V-2 rocket on 10 May 1946.[7] The first images of Earth taken from space followed the same year[8][9] while the first animal experiment saw fruit flies lifted into space in 1947, both also on modified V-2s launched by Americans. Starting in 1947, the Soviets, also with the help of German teams, launched sub-orbital V-2 rockets and their own variant, the R-1, including radiation and animal experiments on some flights. These suborbital experiments only allowed a very short time in space which limited their usefulness." - Wikipedia

(15-11-2016 03:11 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(15-11-2016 03:05 PM)Chas Wrote:  There is no evidence of an alien spacecraft. There is evidence that it was a weather balloon.
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That is interesting thank you for telling me something I didn't know, so it was more than 'just a weather balloon' but it was likely just... a weather balloon.

(15-11-2016 03:36 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Holocaust is not something that you can believe in it is fact, you could only accept that it happened or deny it.

Given the number of evidence belief is unnecesary. Using word "believe" imply some doubts about Shoah being real - no one believes that WWII took place, it's a fact beyond doubt. Just like Shoah.

We can only argue about specifics of it - exact number of victims is still in question as far as I'm aware, and it is likely that we will never get definitive answer, only provisional ones.


About your earlier posts - at least some people knew that Final Solution is taking place. For more see Harald Welzer "Soldiers".

The Holocaust is only something you accept if you have never questioned it, I have questioned the Holocaust and so I believe it. I suggest you do not accept the Holocaust out of hand, and I would also implore you to question it, see what the other side has to offer if only just to say you did question it.
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15-11-2016, 04:13 PM
RE: Why Conspiracies are stupid.
(15-11-2016 04:05 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(15-11-2016 03:05 PM)Chas Wrote:  And no one has denied that they do.


When people talk of 'conspiracy theories' it is in reference to the outlandish ones, not actual conspiracies.


Since it didn't come to light until 1975, hippies were not talking about MKUltra.


Facepalm It was a weather balloon.


V2 rockets were not capable of going into space. Their maximum altitude was atmospheric.


There is no evidence of an alien spacecraft. There is evidence that it was a weather balloon.

"The highest known projectiles prior to the rockets of the 1940s were the shells of the Paris Gun, a type of German long-range siege gun, which reached at least 40 kilometers altitude during World War One.[6] Steps towards putting a human-made object into space were taken by German scientists during World War II while testing the V-2 rocket, which became the first human-made object in space on 3 October 1942 with the launching of the A-4. After the war, the U.S. used German scientists and their captured rockets in programs for both military and civilian research. The first scientific exploration from space was the cosmic radiation experiment launched by the U.S. on a V-2 rocket on 10 May 1946.[7] The first images of Earth taken from space followed the same year[8][9] while the first animal experiment saw fruit flies lifted into space in 1947, both also on modified V-2s launched by Americans. Starting in 1947, the Soviets, also with the help of German teams, launched sub-orbital V-2 rockets and their own variant, the R-1, including radiation and animal experiments on some flights. These suborbital experiments only allowed a very short time in space which limited their usefulness." - Wikipedia

Is that some inept backpedaling?

What you said was:
Quote:I mean the Nazis did have the technology to do so and they were the first ones to launch an object into space (IE the v2 rockets)

You were wrong.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-11-2016, 04:20 PM
RE: Why Conspiracies are stupid.
(15-11-2016 04:13 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-11-2016 04:05 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  "The highest known projectiles prior to the rockets of the 1940s were the shells of the Paris Gun, a type of German long-range siege gun, which reached at least 40 kilometers altitude during World War One.[6] Steps towards putting a human-made object into space were taken by German scientists during World War II while testing the V-2 rocket, which became the first human-made object in space on 3 October 1942 with the launching of the A-4. After the war, the U.S. used German scientists and their captured rockets in programs for both military and civilian research. The first scientific exploration from space was the cosmic radiation experiment launched by the U.S. on a V-2 rocket on 10 May 1946.[7] The first images of Earth taken from space followed the same year[8][9] while the first animal experiment saw fruit flies lifted into space in 1947, both also on modified V-2s launched by Americans. Starting in 1947, the Soviets, also with the help of German teams, launched sub-orbital V-2 rockets and their own variant, the R-1, including radiation and animal experiments on some flights. These suborbital experiments only allowed a very short time in space which limited their usefulness." - Wikipedia

Is that some inept backpedaling?

What you said was:
Quote:I mean the Nazis did have the technology to do so and they were the first ones to launch an object into space (IE the v2 rockets)

You were wrong.

I was wrong about roswell yes, but you weren't exactly right either saying it was 'just a weather balloon' when it was more than just a weather balloon. I also wasn't wrong about v2 rockets going into space.
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15-11-2016, 04:28 PM
RE: Why Conspiracies are stupid.
@C_W

There is no reason for questioning the facts. Evidence for Shoah are many, questioning it's happening is akin to wondering if WWII took place. It's simply stupid.

Also check to who you're talking before you start your patronizing shit with "checking the other side" nonsense. Other side has nothing of value to offer - Richard Evans book "Lying About Hitler" shows it plainly.

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15-11-2016, 04:40 PM
RE: Why Conspiracies are stupid.
(15-11-2016 04:28 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  @C_W

There is no reason for questioning the facts. Evidence for Shoah are many, questioning it's happening is akin to wondering if WWII took place. It's simply stupid.

Also check to who you're talking before you start your patronizing shit with "checking the other side" nonsense. Other side has nothing of value to offer - Richard Evans book "Lying About Hitler" shows it plainly.

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I'm assuming you mean 'check who you're talking before' because you're Jewish. I don't care if you're Jewish though it is rather odd to see a Jewish person on an atheist forum... but more so I would think that would only give you more reason to question the Holocaust instead of subtracting from it.

You also don't know what a fact is until you question what makes it a fact. If there is a lot of evidence for the holocaust then it shouldn't take much time to come to a conclusion.

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