Why Do Christians Fear Atheist?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
03-05-2017, 05:52 AM
RE: Why Do Christians Fear Atheist?
The problem I have is that they can very rarely define what God even is.

Forget me believing in it, if they can't even describe it in coherent terms, how exactly do they believe in it?

Seriously, I think I can count on one hand the number of times a theist has told me the difference between a "God" and an arbitrarily powerful non-God. One said you could not tell the difference!

What are the entrance requirements? If it's just creating and having domain over a reality, then we could be gods if our computer simulations manifest somehow and become self-aware.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Robvalue's post
03-05-2017, 06:03 AM
RE: Why Do Christians Fear Atheist?
The lack of a definition is the clearest indicator of their mere lip-service to the concept.

And that most of them are rather dim.

Especially my cousins.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Gawdzilla's post
03-05-2017, 07:59 AM
RE: Why Do Christians Fear Atheist?
(03-05-2017 05:52 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  The problem I have is that they can very rarely define what God even is.

Forget me believing in it, if they can't even describe it in coherent terms, how exactly do they believe in it?

Seriously, I think I can count on one hand the number of times a theist has told me the difference between a "God" and an arbitrarily powerful non-God. One said you could not tell the difference!

What are the entrance requirements? If it's just creating and having domain over a reality, then we could be gods if our computer simulations manifest somehow and become self-aware.

Maybe that could be an effective strategy, just take away some of the alleged powers of their god and then ask- is that still god?

Let's take away the power of your god to affect anything in your post-mortem existence, if it can't provide a post-mortem consciousness and when you die, you simply cease to exist- is that still god?

If it can't simply materialize in front of whoever asks where their friends and family can see it, converse with it, go to lunch with it and ask questions to it- is that still god?

If it can't practice simple forgiveness, just like a child or chimpanzee can, without an elaborate and restrictive system in place, is that still god?

Etc. Etc....

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like TheInquisition's post
03-05-2017, 08:07 AM
RE: Why Do Christians Fear Atheist?
That would be very interesting. I did something similar on my previous forum, and got very minimal responses from theists.

Even if you can nail down one theist on what exactly the attributes are, the next one will go ahead and disagree. So again, a lack of an agreed coherent definition even by the people who think it's real is good evidence that it's probably imaginary. It can't logically meet all these demands at once, from different theists. If they're talking about a real thing, they're getting it totally wrong.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Robvalue's post
03-05-2017, 10:13 AM
RE: Why Do Christians Fear Atheist?
(03-05-2017 08:07 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Even if you can nail down one theist on what exactly the attributes are, the next one will go ahead and disagree.

Islam has a strong tradition of divine attributes in the 99 names of Allah.

http://99namesofallah.name/

I don't think you can have any god concept which doesn't at least include awareness and some super-human attributes.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-05-2017, 10:50 AM
RE: Why Do Christians Fear Atheist?
(03-05-2017 10:13 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(03-05-2017 08:07 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Even if you can nail down one theist on what exactly the attributes are, the next one will go ahead and disagree.

Islam has a strong tradition of divine attributes in the 99 names of Allah.

http://99namesofallah.name/

I don't think you can have any god concept which doesn't at least include awareness and some super-human attributes.
Well, attributes 1 and 2 conflict with attribute 9, 22 and 25, just for starters.

Just as they do for Christianity.

You can't have a benevolent / kind / merciful deity who is also wrathful / judging / destroying / abasing, or vice-versa. These monotheistic deities are simply elaborated from the insecure, egotistical despotic kings and emperors who were the strongest exemplars of projected human power in that era. They appeared benevolent when it stroked their ego and suited their needs; they waged war and decreed punishment and death when it stroked their ego and suited their needs. Thanks to what eventually was called "the divine right of kings", this behavior was a thing unto itself, and considered acceptable and even inherent in the control and administration of earthly kingdoms. Heck, they did not really have a formal concept of rule by / for the people. So of course god would simply be a totally powerful and wealthy extrapolation from that. With very human contradictions and inconsistencies, except it is ALLOWED for kings.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like mordant's post
03-05-2017, 11:09 AM
RE: Why Do Christians Fear Atheist?
(03-05-2017 10:50 AM)mordant Wrote:  
(03-05-2017 10:13 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  Islam has a strong tradition of divine attributes in the 99 names of Allah.

http://99namesofallah.name/

I don't think you can have any god concept which doesn't at least include awareness and some super-human attributes.
Well, attributes 1 and 2 conflict with attribute 9, 22 and 25, just for starters.

Just as they do for Christianity.

You can't have a benevolent / kind / merciful deity who is also wrathful / judging / destroying / abasing, or vice-versa. These monotheistic deities are simply elaborated from the insecure, egotistical despotic kings and emperors who were the strongest exemplars of projected human power in that era. They appeared benevolent when it stroked their ego and suited their needs; they waged war and decreed punishment and death when it stroked their ego and suited their needs. Thanks to what eventually was called "the divine right of kings", this behavior was a thing unto itself, and considered acceptable and even inherent in the control and administration of earthly kingdoms. Heck, they did not really have a formal concept of rule by / for the people. So of course god would simply be a totally powerful and wealthy extrapolation from that. With very human contradictions and inconsistencies, except it is ALLOWED for kings.

Absolutely, amazing how the god of the bible doesn't really act like a normal human, but it acts like a power-mad king.

Did the Pharaoh refuse to bow to god's will? Should we kill his firstborn son or every first born son in Egypt?

A normal person who has revenge issues would probably just kill the Pharaoh's son, but an insane despot who isn't used to being told no would kill every firstborn in Egypt.

So we get a god concept that exhibits all of the worst human traits of jealousy, rage, anger, pettiness, a demand for unquestioned authority and worship. Just like an ancient insane despot that will not tolerate any dissension from his divine decree.

And then this god's followers are willing to generate an endless stream of rationalizations of why their despot is better than the other power-corrupted despots that we find on this Earth as it runs roughshod over humanity.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TheInquisition's post
03-05-2017, 11:19 AM
RE: Why Do Christians Fear Atheist?
(03-05-2017 10:50 AM)mordant Wrote:  These monotheistic deities are simply elaborated from the insecure, egotistical despotic kings and emperors who were the strongest exemplars of projected human power in that era.

To me such God concepts seem more like extreme father figures, which is I guess pretty much the same thing. We become conditioned to our parents when we are children, and transfer our habits-of-mind to a stand-in father figure when we convert to theism. "Being convinced that God exists" is really the feeling of how the concept accommodates those habits.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Thoreauvian's post
03-05-2017, 08:28 PM
RE: Why Do Christians Fear Atheist?
(03-05-2017 11:19 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(03-05-2017 10:50 AM)mordant Wrote:  These monotheistic deities are simply elaborated from the insecure, egotistical despotic kings and emperors who were the strongest exemplars of projected human power in that era.

To me such God concepts seem more like extreme father figures, which is I guess pretty much the same thing. We become conditioned to our parents when we are children, and transfer our habits-of-mind to a stand-in father figure when we convert to theism. "Being convinced that God exists" is really the feeling of how the concept accommodates those habits.
Yes, generically, "authoritarianism" or more specifically, belief in the "strong father" who is automatically reckoned as competent, trustworthy, strong and most importantly, unquestionably right. No room for a nurturing, wise, mentoring father, that's for liberals and fags. Orders must be barked, the slightest question much less mistake must be met with the gravest consequences. Control is everything to a strong father, and unquestioning servile obedience and automatic fear and respect is the sole measure of success in the "child".*

To my mind, earthly despots are just authoritarian "strong fathers" writ large and gods are earthly despots writ even larger. Political dominance is a breeding ground for assholes. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely, and all that jazz.

* In my Christian days, to my tribe, James Dobson's book The Strong-Willed Child was a cult classic. He actually advocated "breaking the will" of such children. I personally knew many people thusly broken. And even that was mild compared to the modern QuiverFull movement, which demands that children obey "instantly and cheerfully". "You vill obey ... und you vill ENJOY!"
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like mordant's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: