Why Genocide is an Atheist's Game
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08-10-2014, 05:16 PM
RE: Why Genocide is an Atheist's Game
(08-10-2014 12:00 PM)Airportkid Wrote:  A favorite claim of the religious is that atheism is responsible for the greatest acts of genocide ever perpetrated and the funny thing is, they're right. But they're right for reasons that oppose them, not for the reasons they think.

Genocide on a truly horrific scale requires something only recently gotten into human hands: mechanized killing. Hence, the greatest genocides numerically are only recent events, and while high proportional genocides reach back centuries, raw numbers of gross slaughter only became possible with automatic gunnery, high yield bombs and other deadly products of advanced technology applied by less advanced minds.

Side by side with improvements to the technology of mass death is another very profound social shift: the marginalization of religion in political leadership. The human race may be stupid on many fronts, but it's smarter than we think in how it chooses to be led, and the great majority of humankind keeps the fanatically religious away from direct control of the levers of power. Most governments today are operated secularly, and religion may get lip service, but not buttons to push. That's even true here in the United States. Much as no atheist could ever get elected to public office, neither could a Pat Robertson, or a Billy Graham, or any other massively popular evangelist. The evangelists are way too extreme for the mainstream public to stomach in high political station. How much of the human race pays serious attention to the Vatican? The Pope seems today to be trying to figure out how to get the papacy to fit the real world, not the other way around.

Atheism is closely correlated with knowledge of how the world really works, and knowledge of how the world really works makes one able to make more effective decisions, and guide one's own destiny. The atheist who aspires to power and wields knowledge ruthlessly will much more likely realize his ambition than anyone else less knowledgeable or less driven.

So, recent history has seen ruthless leaders who, being atheist, applied their superior knowledge to become leaders, leaders to a people who distrust anyone religious ever attaining political leadership, with the result that some of these atheist bastards armed with the best killing tools ever invented were able to kill by the millions.

So, yes, atheists committed the worst genocides. And their atheism was a factor, but not the driving factor. The driving factor was being a bastard, something every human being has in his genes.

Atheists did them because as political leaders they could.

Religious leaders didn't do them because religious political leadership is increasingly impossible. There aren't any significant religious political leaders. Were religious political leadership still possible today, the history of genocide would be BLOODIER than it was, bloody as it was. The Middle East is the last bastion of actual religious political leadership, and the whole world has watched as that leadership made the Middle East the most inviting paradise created on earth - for corpses.

God flooded the entire planet and killed 99.x^15% of all life on the planet.

oh...and here..Now fuck off.

Religion and Genocide


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08-10-2014, 05:59 PM
RE: Why Genocide is an Atheist's Game
(08-10-2014 02:53 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(08-10-2014 02:16 PM)DLJ Wrote:  No argument from me. Sounds about right.


The irony being that if Jesus existed and the Jesus-creation story is true...

[Image: maury_christmas.jpg]

Damn DLJ, it won't open. Open, open, open.

Hmmm. sorry. I can't seem to fix it. But you can right click and open in new page.
It was just a picture of Joseph being told he wasn't the father.

Blush

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08-10-2014, 07:53 PM
RE: Why Genocide is an Atheist's Game
airportkid Wrote:Atheism is closely correlated with knowledge of how the world really works, and knowledge of how the world really works makes one able to make more effective decisions, and guide one's own destiny
Massaging your own ego...a little too much I think. I don't give atheists any such unearned credit by virtue of being atheist.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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08-10-2014, 08:23 PM
RE: Why Genocide is an Atheist's Game
(08-10-2014 01:57 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(08-10-2014 12:00 PM)Airportkid Wrote:  A favorite claim of the religious is that atheism is responsible for the greatest acts of genocide ever perpetrated and the funny thing is, they're right. But they're right for reasons that oppose them, not for the reasons they think.

Genocide on a truly horrific scale requires something only recently gotten into human hands: mechanized killing. Hence, the greatest genocides numerically are only recent events, and while high proportional genocides reach back centuries, raw numbers of gross slaughter only became possible with automatic gunnery, high yield bombs and other deadly products of advanced technology applied by less advanced minds.

Side by side with improvements to the technology of mass death is another very profound social shift: the marginalization of religion in political leadership. The human race may be stupid on many fronts, but it's smarter than we think in how it chooses to be led, and the great majority of humankind keeps the fanatically religious away from direct control of the levers of power. Most governments today are operated secularly, and religion may get lip service, but not buttons to push. That's even true here in the United States. Much as no atheist could ever get elected to public office, neither could a Pat Robertson, or a Billy Graham, or any other massively popular evangelist. The evangelists are way too extreme for the mainstream public to stomach in high political station. How much of the human race pays serious attention to the Vatican? The Pope seems today to be trying to figure out how to get the papacy to fit the real world, not the other way around.

Atheism is closely correlated with knowledge of how the world really works, and knowledge of how the world really works makes one able to make more effective decisions, and guide one's own destiny. The atheist who aspires to power and wields knowledge ruthlessly will much more likely realize his ambition than anyone else less knowledgeable or less driven.

So, recent history has seen ruthless leaders who, being atheist, applied their superior knowledge to become leaders, leaders to a people who distrust anyone religious ever attaining political leadership, with the result that some of these atheist bastards armed with the best killing tools ever invented were able to kill by the millions.

So, yes, atheists committed the worst genocides. And their atheism was a factor, but not the driving factor. The driving factor was being a bastard, something every human being has in his genes.

Atheists did them because as political leaders they could.

Religious leaders didn't do them because religious political leadership is increasingly impossible. There aren't any significant religious political leaders. Were religious political leadership still possible today, the history of genocide would be BLOODIER than it was, bloody as it was. The Middle East is the last bastion of actual religious political leadership, and the whole world has watched as that leadership made the Middle East the most inviting paradise created on earth - for corpses.

Yes, POWER + WOBBLY ETHICS = DESTRUCTION. But before the anti-Bible, anti-theist comments pour in on my little formula,

I noticed NO ONE has yet commented on your own comment, "The driving factor was being a bastard, something every human being has in his genes." That we are all sinners except Jesus is what The Q is saying, eh? Sounds like you all agree via silence, then? Blush

My silence was a consequence of being in shock! Shocking
Shock that the phrase "The Q Continuum", and the picture you use as your avatar, could both actually become so sullied, by association with you, in my eyes Angry Weeping Angry

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09-10-2014, 06:30 AM
RE: Why Genocide is an Atheist's Game
(08-10-2014 01:57 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I noticed NO ONE has yet commented on your own comment, "The driving factor was being a bastard, something every human being has in his genes." That we are all sinners except Jesus is what The Q is saying, eh? Sounds like you all agree via silence, then? Blush

I guess you don't want me to be silent, then? Prove sin exists. Prove Jesus existed without sin.
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13-10-2014, 02:09 PM
RE: Why Genocide is an Atheist's Game
(09-10-2014 06:30 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(08-10-2014 01:57 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I noticed NO ONE has yet commented on your own comment, "The driving factor was being a bastard, something every human being has in his genes." That we are all sinners except Jesus is what The Q is saying, eh? Sounds like you all agree via silence, then? Blush

I guess you don't want me to be silent, then? Prove sin exists. Prove Jesus existed without sin.

Prove that sin exists?

"All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death." - 1 John 5:17

You are really asking me to prove that people err, or do ethical wrongs or moral wrongs, and I would question that I need to prove that to you. The Bible says you are lying if you say you don't do wrong somewhere/somehow/some when, and my experience of human nature agrees with that assessment.

Prove that Jesus exists without sin? That is tantamount to saying "Prove the Earth exists without the Sun." It's moot. Jesus dies at the hands of sinners who were behaving sinfully. He died for sin. He died for you and for me and all The Q.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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13-10-2014, 06:56 PM
RE: Why Genocide is an Atheist's Game
Sin is a transgression against a deity. There can't be sin unless there is a god. Merely saying wrong doing exists does not prove sin exists. Try again.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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13-10-2014, 08:54 PM
RE: Why Genocide is an Atheist's Game
As far as it looks when you look at the big communist 'atheist' dictatorships the leaders position themselves as gods, so there is a strong argument that they were in fact autotheists. This is strongest with modern North Korea where Kim Il Sung is considered to still be the leader of the country and live as a divine protector while his decedents are the 'earthly face'. With the Kims too it's gotten to such a point that people do pray to Kim Il Sung, and are encouraged too to pray even to Kim Jong Un who is still alive. Mao and Stalin too created these state religions with themselves as the head, and even had their funerals arranged to turn their burial sites into religious monuments.
They may be autotheists who believe they are gods or they may be atheists who just present themselves as god, probably something we'll never know for sure, but I think it's far more likely they are autotheists since mass murder is an autotheist's game, and genocide is just mass murder in the extreme.

So I wouldn't say genocide is an atheist's game. It is a god's game. Either through asserting himself in the role, like a serial killer, by creating a state to do the role, like a dictator, or just by being a fictional character who inspires followers to the role, like the gods of legend.

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13-10-2014, 09:45 PM
RE: Why Genocide is an Atheist's Game
(08-10-2014 05:16 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  
(08-10-2014 12:00 PM)Airportkid Wrote:  A favorite claim of the religious is that atheism is responsible for the greatest acts of genocide ever perpetrated and the funny thing is, they're right. But they're right for reasons that oppose them, not for the reasons they think.

Genocide on a truly horrific scale requires something only recently gotten into human hands: mechanized killing. Hence, the greatest genocides numerically are only recent events, and while high proportional genocides reach back centuries, raw numbers of gross slaughter only became possible with automatic gunnery, high yield bombs and other deadly products of advanced technology applied by less advanced minds.

Side by side with improvements to the technology of mass death is another very profound social shift: the marginalization of religion in political leadership. The human race may be stupid on many fronts, but it's smarter than we think in how it chooses to be led, and the great majority of humankind keeps the fanatically religious away from direct control of the levers of power. Most governments today are operated secularly, and religion may get lip service, but not buttons to push. That's even true here in the United States. Much as no atheist could ever get elected to public office, neither could a Pat Robertson, or a Billy Graham, or any other massively popular evangelist. The evangelists are way too extreme for the mainstream public to stomach in high political station. How much of the human race pays serious attention to the Vatican? The Pope seems today to be trying to figure out how to get the papacy to fit the real world, not the other way around.

Atheism is closely correlated with knowledge of how the world really works, and knowledge of how the world really works makes one able to make more effective decisions, and guide one's own destiny. The atheist who aspires to power and wields knowledge ruthlessly will much more likely realize his ambition than anyone else less knowledgeable or less driven.

So, recent history has seen ruthless leaders who, being atheist, applied their superior knowledge to become leaders, leaders to a people who distrust anyone religious ever attaining political leadership, with the result that some of these atheist bastards armed with the best killing tools ever invented were able to kill by the millions.

So, yes, atheists committed the worst genocides. And their atheism was a factor, but not the driving factor. The driving factor was being a bastard, something every human being has in his genes.

Atheists did them because as political leaders they could.

Religious leaders didn't do them because religious political leadership is increasingly impossible. There aren't any significant religious political leaders. Were religious political leadership still possible today, the history of genocide would be BLOODIER than it was, bloody as it was. The Middle East is the last bastion of actual religious political leadership, and the whole world has watched as that leadership made the Middle East the most inviting paradise created on earth - for corpses.

God flooded the entire planet and killed 99.x^15% of all life on the planet.

oh...and here..Now fuck off.

Religion and Genocide

If you add all the miscarriages that god allows to happen which is almost 50% of pregnancies, then he's also the biggest abortionist in history.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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14-10-2014, 05:51 AM
RE: Why Genocide is an Atheist's Game
(13-10-2014 02:09 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Prove that sin exists?

"All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death." - 1 John 5:17

Aw, you're using the Bible as part of a proof. How cute.

A better definition of sin would be "a transgression of a divine law". Now, given that definition, you're going to have to prove the Bible is the divine word of God and not just a book of Hebrew mythology.

Why should I take that book any more seriously than Greek mythology?


(13-10-2014 02:09 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You are really asking me to prove that people err, or do ethical wrongs or moral wrongs, and I would question that I need to prove that to you. The Bible says you are lying if you say you don't do wrong somewhere/somehow/some when, and my experience of human nature agrees with that assessment.

I never said people didn't do bad things. Prove that those things are sins (see above).


(13-10-2014 02:09 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Prove that Jesus exists without sin? That is tantamount to saying "Prove the Earth exists without the Sun." It's moot. Jesus dies at the hands of sinners who were behaving sinfully. He died for sin. He died for you and for me and all The Q.

No, I meant that if sin exists, prove that Jesus didn't commit any sins.


You make a lot of assumptions about the world, primarily based on a book of Hebrew mythology, it seems.
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