Why God can not exist - logical arguments
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21-06-2014, 09:28 PM
RE: Why God can not exist - logical arguments
(21-06-2014 09:01 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I do not have to present a plausible mechanism or explanation for dualism to show that dualism is the more plausible explanation than materialism for a specific given set of data.

HEY -- FUCKING IDIOT -- YOUR BURDEN OF PROOF IS MUCH HIGHER THAN "MORE PLAUSIBLE THAN X".

THIS HAS BEEN EXPLAINED TO YOU MANY TIMES.

EVIDENCE, ASSHOLE. EVIDENCE.

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21-06-2014, 09:31 PM (This post was last modified: 22-06-2014 05:47 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Why God can not exist - logical arguments
(21-06-2014 09:23 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(21-06-2014 05:20 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Dr. Craig explains why:

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/is-god-actually-infinite

Hobo


What a fucking idiot Craig is : "It means that God is metaphysically necessary".
That alone refutes his damn god. It means god is SUBJECT to Reality, not it's master. I mean a two year old can refute this shit.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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21-06-2014, 09:50 PM
RE: Why God can not exist - logical arguments
(21-06-2014 09:31 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(21-06-2014 09:23 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Hobo


What a fucking idiot Craig is. "It means that God is metaphysically necessary".
That alone refutes his damn god. It means god is SUBJECT to Reality, not it's master. I mean a two year old can refute this shit.

LOL and he completely dodges the real question as well.

Facepalm

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21-06-2014, 10:06 PM
RE: Why God can not exist - logical arguments
(21-06-2014 09:01 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(21-06-2014 05:44 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  The burden is on you to first present a plausible mechanism of action for this dualism.

I do not have to present a plausible mechanism or explanation for dualism to show that dualism is the more plausible explanation than ...

The fuck you don't.
Jeremy - "Okay hear me out. I know this is gonna sound completely batshit crazy insane as fuck and shit but the alternatives are even batshittier crazier." is not particularly compelling.

#sigh
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21-06-2014, 10:11 PM (This post was last modified: 21-06-2014 10:30 PM by true scotsman.)
RE: Why God can not exist - logical arguments
Thank you Jeremy for pointing out an important philosophical principle. I think it deserves to be repeated again and again and pounded in with a sledge hammer.

You wrote: Philosophers of science recognize that in order to recognize an explanation x as the best explanation for any given set of data d, you do not have to have an explanation of the explanation. The reason is obvious. Demanding explanations of explanations results in an infinite regress of explanations which would render the entire scientific endeavor impotent to explain the observable phenomenon in the natural world.


This will stop a lot of confusion. Everybody take note. The next time someone says "Look at all these marvelous trees and clouds and rainbows and stars........who created all this? How come there's something instead of nothing?

You say it's all here we can see it, we know it exists. That's the explanation, it just is. The explanation for why there's something instead of nothing is that there is something.

And when they say "yeah but who created it" you say ah, ah, ah, that's an improper question. You are asking for an explanation of the explanation. You can't do that.

Thank you again Jeremy.

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Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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21-06-2014, 10:29 PM
RE: Why God can not exist - logical arguments
(21-06-2014 10:11 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  Thank you Jeremy for pointing out an important philosophical principle. I think it deserves to be repeated again and again and pounded in with a sledge hammer.

You wrote: Philosophers of science recognize that in order to recognize an explanation x as the best explanation for any given set of data d, you do not have to have an explanation of the explanation. The reason is obvious. Demanding explanations of explanations results in an infinite regress of explanations which would render the entire scientific endeavor impotent to explain the observable phenomenon in the natural world.


This will stop a lot of confusion. Everybody take note. The next time someone says "Look at all these marvelous trees and clouds and rainbows and stars........who created all this? How come there's something instead of nothing?

You say its all here we can see it, we know it exists. That's the explanation, it just is. The explanation for why there's something instead of nothing is that there is something.

And when they say "yeah but who created it" you say ah, ah, ah, that's an improper question. You are asking for an explanation of the explanation. You can't do that.

Thank you again Jeremy.

[Image: giphy.gif]

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


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21-06-2014, 10:48 PM
RE: Why God can not exist - logical arguments
(21-06-2014 10:11 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  Thank you Jeremy for pointing out an important philosophical principle. I think it deserves to be repeated again and again and pounded in with a sledge hammer.

You wrote: Philosophers of science recognize that in order to recognize an explanation x as the best explanation for any given set of data d, you do not have to have an explanation of the explanation. The reason is obvious. Demanding explanations of explanations results in an infinite regress of explanations which would render the entire scientific endeavor impotent to explain the observable phenomenon in the natural world.


This will stop a lot of confusion. Everybody take note. The next time someone says "Look at all these marvelous trees and clouds and rainbows and stars........who created all this? How come there's something instead of nothing?

You say it's all here we can see it, we know it exists. That's the explanation, it just is. The explanation for why there's something instead of nothing is that there is something.

And when they say "yeah but who created it" you say ah, ah, ah, that's an improper question. You are asking for an explanation of the explanation. You can't do that.

Thank you again Jeremy.



I am sorely tempted to post excerpts of the Buddha's Aggi Vacchagotta Sutta, though there might be too much extraneous explanation of what's going on in it to clearly illustrate the point I'd be trying to make...

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22-06-2014, 01:11 AM
RE: Why God can not exist - logical arguments
(21-06-2014 05:09 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(21-06-2014 03:58 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  That's so kind of you to allow me to submit a topic of my choosing in the hope that you may deign me with a decision and I feel honoured that you would bless me with such a privilige ... but it didn't answer my question.

"Does God Exist?"

But you ran away from a challenge where I was stating that God does not exist.

If we use your starting question, I will say that he doesn't. You will put forward arguments that he does, I will take those arguments and make better ones to say that God doesn't exist (better because they will be backed by evidence and will be simpler). You will then have to refute your own arguments to counter mine. Then it will all end in tears and I will be offering hugs.

Your excuse for not debating was:

(01-06-2014 04:39 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  you cannot prove with absolute certainty that God does not exist and I cannot prove with absolute certainty that He does.

So I see no need to debate this.


But the difference between me stating that God does not exist and you considering the possibility that he does is that you know and have admitted that you can't put forward a decent case. You just want to create enough doubt and make it look like it's a valid question. This is evidence that what's more important to you is that people believe in the existence of God regardless of whether they can justify the belief.

P.S God does not exist
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22-06-2014, 01:37 AM
RE: Why God can not exist - logical arguments
(21-06-2014 05:20 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  2. Even if the philosophical argument against an actual infinite was the only support for two, your objection fails because God is not an actual infinite. Dr. Craig explains why:

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/is-god-actually-infinite

That response from WLC was hilarious.

Quote:the mathematical notion of an actual infinite is a quantitative concept.

True. And so is the mathematical notion of finite.

And now for the word play ...

Quote: But when theologians speak of the infinity of God, they are not using the word in a mathematical sense to refer to an aggregate of an infinite number of elements. God's infinity is, as it were, qualitative, not quantitative.

Infinity is a number. How can something be quantitative finite yet infinitely qualitative?

Quote: It means that God is metaphysically necessary, morally perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, eternal, and so on.

Ah so God is quantitatively infinite then!


Quote:omniscience need not entail knowing an infinite number of, say, propositions, much less having an infinite number of thoughts; nor need we think of omnipotence as entailing the ability to do an infinite number of actions

I see that he didn't mention 'eternal' in there which is the sole reason why the existence of actual infinities is being debated.


Quote:Thus, denying that God is actually infinite in the quantitative sense in no way implies that God is finite.

And now he relies on deliberate sleight of hand because what his argument actually states is:

"Thus, denying that God is actually infinite in the quantitative sense in no way implies that God is qualitatively finite."

So there you have it. William Lane Craig deliberately relying on ambiguity and deliberately avoiding addressing the question of quantitatively infinite time. And in the process being intellectually dishonest because the fundamental flaw in his argument has been exposed.
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22-06-2014, 07:54 AM
RE: Why God can not exist - logical arguments
(21-06-2014 10:06 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(21-06-2014 09:01 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I do not have to present a plausible mechanism or explanation for dualism to show that dualism is the more plausible explanation than ...

The fuck you don't.
Jeremy - "Okay hear me out. I know this is gonna sound completely batshit crazy insane as fuck and shit but the alternatives are even batshittier crazier." is not particularly compelling.

You did not really address my arguments for why I said what I said. You just quoted the first twenty or so words and then stopped.
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