Why Homosexuality is Wrong (a stupid theist's argument)
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19-12-2013, 03:56 AM
RE: Why Homosexuality is Wrong (a stupid theist's argument)
(19-12-2013 03:51 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  The only sensible option is to discuss what the Christian actually said and critique that. It is silly to pretend he said something and then bash him for saying it(which is exactly what you are doing).

So, based on what the Christian actually said, can we critique that according to his analogy people are born to walk on their feet, and not their heads, or are not born to walk on their feet, and not their heads? Or is there a third option?

...you know, based on what the stupid Christian said about walking on one's head and what not...

...
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19-12-2013, 04:05 AM
RE: Why Homosexuality is Wrong (a stupid theist's argument)
(19-12-2013 03:56 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  
(19-12-2013 03:51 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  The only sensible option is to discuss what the Christian actually said and critique that. It is silly to pretend he said something and then bash him for saying it(which is exactly what you are doing).

So, based on what the Christian actually said, can we critique that according to his analogy people are born to walk on their feet, and not their heads, or are not born to walk on their feet, and not their heads? Or is there a third option?

...you know, based on what the stupid Christian said about walking on one's head and what not...

He used an analogy to say homosexuality is not equivalent to heterosexuality. This is what we should be discussing/criticizing.
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19-12-2013, 04:20 AM (This post was last modified: 19-12-2013 04:25 AM by ShirubaDangan.)
RE: Why Homosexuality is Wrong (a stupid theist's argument)
(19-12-2013 03:51 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(19-12-2013 03:35 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  I didn't read a word passed this, because the rest wont matter until we clear this up, and to be fair the rest of what you wrote is probably batshit insane anyway.

If not either of these two options (born that way, or not born that way) then what is the third option?

The only sensible option is to discuss what the Christian actually said and critique that. It is silly to pretend he said something and then bash him for saying it(which is exactly what you are doing).





I will make this quite easy for you since it seems you don't understand much of it with human homosexuality or sexuality in general. It is clear that Gay's are born gay like you are born liking certain types of women. No one ever told you to like women and if we looked into what your ideal woman looks like I guaran freakin tee you that it would differ from other Christian's, Jews or Pastafarians. Did any of those people implant those ideas in your head? Nope. You gained it on your own and you found what you are attractive too whether that be nice round curves on a girl or a guy for that matter.

God also has created animals that show homosexual tendencies. Why would he do that? I've asked Christian's this and I haven't been given much of a good answer. What is your thought on this? And before you say humans are more superior we are animals as well and not a type of rock although we were made of dirt from God apparently.

Also, why is homosexuality so wrong? This is the question Theists only answer with being brutally blind. It is much more either out of hatred, ignorance or indoctrination and never with any provable points that it is somehow bad.

Being ignorant, indoctrinated or hateful is much more horrible than homosexuality is. Of course religion utilizes all three so they are absolutely fine to the church.

The analogy you used is completely false though. It is like God creating a way for you to walk on your head which was completely fine and normal which other creations he apparently made were doing so naturally and wouldn't affect any others but because your book says a few verses against them you believe it to be bad. Of course you ignore not eating shellfish or wearing clothes of two linen so lets get to the topic at heart. Why do you Heywood ignore the other teachings in the Bible? Why is this one the only relevant one? Why not kill shellfish eaters? God clearly defines them an abomination as well.

Leviticus 11:9-12 says:
9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

Can I ignore parts of the Bible and make it so it says things I want to hear? If not why can you do that?

"Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind." -John F Kennedy

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19-12-2013, 04:21 AM
RE: Why Homosexuality is Wrong (a stupid theist's argument)
(19-12-2013 04:05 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(19-12-2013 03:56 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  So, based on what the Christian actually said, can we critique that according to his analogy people are born to walk on their feet, and not their heads, or are not born to walk on their feet, and not their heads? Or is there a third option?

...you know, based on what the stupid Christian said about walking on one's head and what not...

He used an analogy to say homosexuality is not equivalent to heterosexuality. This is what we should be discussing/criticizing.

OHHHHH.....Now I get it! You think you get to just make declarations about what others can talk about and what they cannot, because you are an idiot and think that's how conversations work!

So now I'm going to make a counter declaration that the thing you want to discuss is stupid and uninteresting, and will no longer be allowed to be discussed, so from now on we are back to my thing. So saith Raptor JesusThumbsup....

So again, which of the options is it, born that way, or not born that way?

...
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19-12-2013, 04:29 AM
RE: Why Homosexuality is Wrong (a stupid theist's argument)
(19-12-2013 04:20 AM)ShirubaDangan Wrote:  
(19-12-2013 03:51 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  The only sensible option is to discuss what the Christian actually said and critique that. It is silly to pretend he said something and then bash him for saying it(which is exactly what you are doing).





I will make this quite easy for you since it seems you don't understand much of it with human homosexuality or sexuality in general. It is clear that Gay's are born gay like you are born liking certain types of women. No one ever told you to like women and if we looked into what your ideal woman looks like I guaran freakin tee you that it would differ from other Christian's, Jews or Pastafarians. Did any of those people implant those ideas in your head? Nope. You gained it on your own and you found what you are attractive too whether that be nice round curves on a girl or a guy for that matter.

God also has created animals that show homosexual tendencies. Why would he do that? I've asked Christian's this and I haven't been given much of a good answer. What is your thought on this? And before you say humans are more superior we are animals as well and not a type of rock although we were made of dirt from God apparently.

Also, why is homosexuality so wrong? This is the question Theists only answer with being brutally blind. It is much more either out of hatred, ignorance or indoctrination and never with any provable points that it is somehow bad.

Being ignorant, indoctrinated or hateful is much more horrible than homosexuality is. Of course religion utilizes all three so they are absolutely fine to the church.

The analogy you used is completely false though. It is like God creating a way for you to walk on your head which was completely fine and normal which other creations he apparently clearly made use the same and is just as doable as before and wouldn't affect any others but because your book says a few verses against them you believe it to be bad. Of course you ignore not eating shellfish or wearing clothes of two linen so lets get to the topic at heart. Why do you Heywood ignore the other teachings in the Bible? Why is this one the only relevant one? Why not kill shellfish eaters? God clearly defines them an abomination as well.

Leviticus 11:9-12 says:
9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

Can I ignore parts of the Bible and make it so it says things I want to hear? If not why can you do that?

How does homosexuality not being a choice make it equivalent to heterosexuality? Choice is irrelevant to the Christian's argument. Its only introduced as a strawman.
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19-12-2013, 04:31 AM
RE: Why Homosexuality is Wrong (a stupid theist's argument)
(19-12-2013 04:21 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  
(19-12-2013 04:05 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  He used an analogy to say homosexuality is not equivalent to heterosexuality. This is what we should be discussing/criticizing.

OHHHHH.....Now I get it! You think you get to just make declarations about what others can talk about and what they cannot, because you are an idiot and think that's how conversations work!

So now I'm going to make a counter declaration that the thing you want to discuss is stupid and uninteresting, and will no longer be allowed to be discussed, so from now on we are back to my thing. So saith Raptor JesusThumbsup....

So again, which of the options is it, born that way, or not born that way?

I can't stop you from talking about things the Christian didn't say as if he said them. I can point out that such argumentation is sophomoric.
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19-12-2013, 04:34 AM
RE: Why Homosexuality is Wrong (a stupid theist's argument)
(19-12-2013 04:29 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  How does homosexuality not being a choice make it equivalent to heterosexuality? Choice is irrelevant to the Christian's argument. Its only introduced as a strawman.

Nope...I already declared we don't get to talk about that anymore. Remember!?Angry

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19-12-2013, 04:38 AM
RE: Why Homosexuality is Wrong (a stupid theist's argument)
(19-12-2013 04:34 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  
(19-12-2013 04:29 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  How does homosexuality not being a choice make it equivalent to heterosexuality? Choice is irrelevant to the Christian's argument. Its only introduced as a strawman.

Nope...I already declared we don't get to talk about that anymore. Remember!?Angry

Actually I changed my mind. Let's talk about that. You see what you are doing here is setting up a strawman and so that you can compare the equivalency of heterosexuality to homosexuality. But the Christian never said anything about either heterosexuality or homosexuality. You are only allowed to discuss what the Christian said in his argument, footwalkers vs headwalkers. You're just adding stuff so that you can set up your agenda to discuss homosexuality when the Christian never said such a thing.

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19-12-2013, 04:43 AM
RE: Why Homosexuality is Wrong (a stupid theist's argument)
(19-12-2013 03:51 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  The only sensible option is to discuss what the Christian actually said and critique that. It is silly to pretend he said something and then bash him for saying it(which is exactly what you are doing).


Just for the record, here is the original quote in question.

Quote:When I get up in the morning, I put my feet on the floor. I do not attempt to stand on my head, since that is not the designed purpose for heads. They are good for many things; standing on them is not one.

Some people can stand on their heads. Some may enjoy it. But by no stretch of the imagination is doing a head-stand on equal-footing with standing on your feet. Any attempt to say they are basically the same thing has to be treated as absurd.

As a “foot walker” it does not seem controversial to me that there would be anything unusual about a man wanting to use his feet to go somewhere.

I may someday be unable to use my feet to travel. I still can use my head well enough to know that I won’t get anywhere if I’m upside down.

(19-12-2013 02:09 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  The analogy is this. Heterosexuality is better in the same way standing on your feet is better standing on your hands. It is really not that hard to understand what the Christian is saying.....and his analogy doesn't have anything to do with choice. That's just you adding things to his argument so you can knock it down.

A better analogy for the Christian to use would be this: Heterosexuality is better than homosexuality in the same way walking bipedal is better than walking quadra-pedal. There are people in the world who walk on all fours not because they choose too.

Okay, so for the purpose of locomotion, bipedality is better with our current form (for movement across a horizontal surface without aid). For the purpose of procreation, heterosexuality is 'better', sure. How does this at all preclude the legal recognition of marriage between homosexual couples or equal rights and protection under the law? The original analogy is shit, and yours is no better. We don't disallow menopausal women or men with vasectomy's from getting married, so clearly procreation is not requirement of secular marriage as recognised by the state. But you know that, I know that; you're not actually that stupid, you're just being purposely obtuse.

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19-12-2013, 04:55 AM
RE: Why Homosexuality is Wrong (a stupid theist's argument)
(19-12-2013 04:43 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Okay, so for the purpose of locomotion, bipedality is better with our current form (for movement across a horizontal surface without aid). For the purpose of procreation, heterosexuality is 'better', sure. How does this at all preclude the legal recognition of marriage between homosexual couples or equal rights and protection under the law? The original analogy is shit, and yours is no better. We don't disallow menopausal women or men with vasectomy's from getting married, so clearly procreation is not requirement of secular marriage as recognised by the state. But you know that, I know that; you're not actually that stupid, you're just being purposely obtuse.

Its not just reproduction. The human body is exquisitely adapted for penis/vagina sex. It is not exquisitely adapted for penis/anus sex.
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