Why I Believe
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20-05-2017, 07:34 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(20-05-2017 07:30 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  What about trying their best to tear down their belief system primarily out of fear?

I thought you were afraid to *stop* believing not afraid to keep on believing?

Either way, the fact that all gods are humankind's various attempts to explain the world they didn't understand and to come to grips with the idea of their mortality, makes it a moot point.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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20-05-2017, 07:35 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(20-05-2017 07:30 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  What about trying their best to tear down their belief system primarily out of fear?

> That, in my personal experience, will come through gaining confidence over time and a persistent and honest pursuit of the truth. Consider
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20-05-2017, 05:32 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(18-05-2017 08:26 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  I guess the most salient fact about the JWs knocking my door is that I said to them "I don't know what I believe".
...
What about trying their best to tear down their belief system primarily out of fear?

Out of fear of what? I tore down my belief system because it was getting in my way. Kinda like this.
[Image: dog_zpsgdseo5jc.jpg]

I rebuilt it on Slack.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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20-05-2017, 11:44 PM
RE: Why I Believe
I have a phobia about hell possibly being a real place of torment; it terrifies and sometimes disables me, so I decided to see if I could ruin my belief system, because if I no longer believe, then hell is no longer a place to fear

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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21-05-2017, 12:03 AM
RE: Why I Believe
SeaJay, you really, really need to learn about the history of the concept of Hell, and how it's not actually in the Bible in the way we see it today. It's a combination of pagan traditions absorbed into Christianity over time, and poor translations. There are several excellent books and even YouTube videos on the subject. Once you see how our modern concept of hell was literally invented long after the death of Jesus, and how the things Jesus was talking about were not the "Hell" we think he means when we read the verses in English, you'll be surprised at how silly it is that this goes mostly unchallenged among average believers. Now, religious scholars recognize this, but sadly there are very few Christians, even preachers, who actually listen to the honest scholars, but tune them out instead in favor of the ones in their tiny, denominational thought-bubble.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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21-05-2017, 12:04 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(20-05-2017 11:44 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  I have a phobia about hell possibly being a real place of torment; it terrifies and sometimes disables me, so I decided to see if I could ruin my belief system, because if I no longer believe, then hell is no longer a place to fear

I see. That is curious. It could work.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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21-05-2017, 12:20 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(20-05-2017 11:44 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  I have a phobia about hell possibly being a real place of torment; it terrifies and sometimes disables me, so I decided to see if I could ruin my belief system, because if I no longer believe, then hell is no longer a place to fear

You really baffle me. It's about believing what's true, amigo. Can you honestly say that you believe Christianity is true? Forget the fear part. If I tell you I will shoot you if you don't believe that Hinduism is the true religion, you may well *say* that, just to appease me, but will you really believe it? In your heart of hearts will you actually think that all that Shiva and Kali stuff somehow makes sense? Purely based off my threat to kill you? What if instead of threatening you directly I say that unless you believe Kali will come to torture you after you die? (I know very little of Hinduism, I picked it as a contrast to any of the standard "Abrahamic" faiths we use as examples all the time.)

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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21-05-2017, 12:24 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(21-05-2017 12:20 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(20-05-2017 11:44 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  I have a phobia about hell possibly being a real place of torment; it terrifies and sometimes disables me, so I decided to see if I could ruin my belief system, because if I no longer believe, then hell is no longer a place to fear

You really baffle me. It's about believing what's true, amigo. Can you honestly say that you believe Christianity is true? Forget the fear part. If I tell you I will shoot you if you don't believe that Hinduism is the true religion, you may well *say* that, just to appease me, but will you really believe it? In your heart of hearts will you actually think that all that Shiva and Kali stuff somehow makes sense? Purely based off my threat to kill you? What if instead of threatening you directly I say that unless you believe Kali will come to torture you after you die? (I know very little of Hinduism, I picked it as a contrast to any of the standard "Abrahamic" faiths we use as examples all the time.)

He has a phobia. He'll be all right once he realizes that eternal torment is not the thing to be feared, eternal life is.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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21-05-2017, 12:52 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(21-05-2017 12:24 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  He has a phobia. He'll be all right once he realizes that eternal torment is not the thing to be feared, eternal life is.

I guess. Irrational fear is... exactly that. But one can learn rationality.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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21-05-2017, 02:07 AM
RE: Why I Believe
Hmm I wonder....

Maybe studying biology would help? Looking in detail at the human body and especially the brain. How consciousness works at a detailed level, and what processes happen (or rather stop happening) upon death.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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