Why I Believe
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06-04-2017, 08:24 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(06-04-2017 12:01 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  Of course the trouble is we are told right from the word go that we can trust God. So it sort of, sinks in and you take for granted you can.

But you don't trust God. You fear God.

That isn't faith. That's terror.

---
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06-04-2017, 09:15 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(06-04-2017 10:22 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  I have a phobia about hell. It terrifies me and I've posted about it (therapy, medication, intrusive thoughts, images etc). I am a Christian with a very shaky faith and I am trying to see if I can destroy my faith because that's the only way I can see of getting out of this dark period I am in.

If I can come to the knowledge that, "Hey, wait a minute, this verse has been changed, and this one was added at a much later date, and this person never actually said this!" then I can safely say I don't believe anymore.

This is unlikely to benefit you much. There are plenty of weasely apologists who will make up dishonest excuses for why much of the Bible contradicts itself. The number of horses and stalls is the sort of trivial detail that even an atheist like myself could shrug off. These are the sorts of Liars for Jesus™ that will cheerfully explain to you why the Bible has two different contradictory lineages for Jesus ancestry. Seriously? Two lineages? Why does it have any? Jesus, son of God. That's all the lineage you need. All the rest is clearly bullshit.

If you let apologists do your thinking then you won't find any contradictions. If you let religion justify itself then of course it will look fine. 'Have faith, trust us, stay afraid. If you don't we'll be out of work.'

If you're going to go this route then ignore the trivial details and look at the big picture:

Why is God Incompetent?

Imagine that you are God. You know everything and can do anything. One day you decide that there are too many sinners and that needs fixing. What do you do?

A) Snap your fingers and make them stop being wicked?
B) Give them something better to do?
C) Magically vanish them all in a puff of pine-scented smoke?
D) Flood the World drowning ever last one of them in a gruesome death that has the "side effect" of also killing all the kittens, puppies, baby birds and, well, all of Creation.

The apologists will weasle through that too but for all their wriggling the can't get around the simple inescapable truth that God committed Global Genocide for no good reason.

---
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06-04-2017, 09:53 PM
RE: Why I Believe
Why is it that a person can claim to be god while at the same time provide no evidence of that being true ?

"Sir, show me some miracle that will prove that you are god."

--- I can't and I won't do that. You'll just have to believe I'm god or not. The choice is up to you.

"Do you want me to believe you are god ?"

--- It doesn't matter if you believe or not, your fate is already predetermined, but I can't talk about that.

------------------
So, here's the thing. Why is it possible for a person to impersonate god ? And do a good job of it.

It's possible because you don't have to do anything.
Doing nothing at all is a perfect impersonation of god.
You just have to come up with excuses for why you can't do things.

When a human being can impersonate a god and do nothing, what does that tell you about this god ?

It should tell you that this god doesn't exist.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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06-04-2017, 09:56 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(06-04-2017 09:53 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  When a human being can impersonate a god and do nothing, what does that tell you about this god ?

It should tell you that this god doesn't exist.

An non-interventionist god is, for all intents and purposes, identical to a nonexistent one.

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06-04-2017, 10:34 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(06-04-2017 04:32 PM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  What Organic said.

I have "faith" in my wife because I've been with her 20 years and she's proven herself to me and I to her."God" hasn't proven jack shit, and in an effrot to justify said faith, people who believe will give credit to "God" for things there is zero proof he had anything to do with. "God" has been good to you? How? What can you point to that you can prove 100% was a result of "God"?
Nothing

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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06-04-2017, 10:41 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(06-04-2017 08:24 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(06-04-2017 12:01 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  Of course the trouble is we are told right from the word go that we can trust God. So it sort of, sinks in and you take for granted you can.

But you don't trust God. You fear God.

That isn't faith. That's terror.
That is why I was asking for a few contradictions and then offering solutions to those contradictions. Not because I wanted to preach, but because I wanted someone with a different perspective to me (i.e. atheists) to help me rethink what I believe by finding holes in my solutions. If someone could prove to me my so called solutions were wrong, then this would move me one step closer to eroding my belief.

This all probably sounds crazy to some people (and they might be right) but I've been, not only scared by all this (therapist said I am traumatised by it). I've tried other ways to lessen my fear but I'm failing. So, I figured the only way out of this was to destroy my faith by seeing if it stands up to scrutiny.

It's never been about me preaching.

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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06-04-2017, 10:47 PM (This post was last modified: 06-04-2017 10:51 PM by SeaJay.)
RE: Why I Believe
I posted this on another site (more or less)

The bible is supposed to be the word of God. But now I can't help think that if that is the case, the message should be clear with no ambiguities. After all we are talking about an omnipotent and omniscient being. If I am saying the errors are down to man, then how can I distinguish the bible from all the other man made books out there? I can't, it is unfalsifiable and that only shows a weakness of any argument why the bible has errors in it. Saying the bible has ambiguities in it because of man seems like an excuse to brush aside those ambiguities

I came to this thinking about 10 minutes ago

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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06-04-2017, 10:49 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(06-04-2017 10:41 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  This all probably sounds crazy to some people (and they might be right) but I've been, not only scared by all this (therapist said I am traumatised by it). I've tried other ways to lessen my fear but I'm failing. So, I figured the only way out of this was to destroy my faith by seeing if it stands up to scrutiny.

HugHugHug

Why don't you narrow down the subject a little or select a particular verse that you can't poke holes through on your own and we can start a group discussion about it? There are plenty of people here to pick the Christian bible apart and expose it for what it is.
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06-04-2017, 10:56 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(06-04-2017 10:49 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(06-04-2017 10:41 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  This all probably sounds crazy to some people (and they might be right) but I've been, not only scared by all this (therapist said I am traumatised by it). I've tried other ways to lessen my fear but I'm failing. So, I figured the only way out of this was to destroy my faith by seeing if it stands up to scrutiny.

HugHugHug

Why don't you narrow down the subject a little or select a particular verse that you can't poke holes through on your own and we can start a group discussion about it? There are plenty of people here to pick the Christian bible apart and expose it for what it is.
That is what I wanted to do when I posted those contradictions. I'm hesitant to do so again in case they are seen as preaching and I get banned.

The truth is, I am testing my faith and it isn't standing up to scrutiny. This forum is, basically, my chance at finally breaking free from discovering if I have been brainwashed into taking certain claims at face value. If I am prevented from posting here, then I'd lose access to the help here. I don't mind admitting that's a scary scenario.

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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06-04-2017, 11:00 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(06-04-2017 10:47 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  Saying the bible has ambiguities in it because of man seems like an excuse to brush aside those ambiguities

I came to this thinking about 10 minutes ago

They don’t call it apologetics for nothing. Yes

Doesn’t it strike you odd that to defend the Bible you have to cite the Bible? Consider

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“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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