Why I Believe
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08-04-2017, 12:08 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(08-04-2017 11:33 AM)whateverist Wrote:  Gonna go out a limb and guess the reason you believe, OP, is that your many life experiences have confirmed it.
Can't say I've had that many to be honest

(08-04-2017 11:33 AM)whateverist Wrote:  That's fine for your personal use. Enjoy. But no way to you have anything to offer a skeptic disinclined to accept your claim. Thanks for playing.
I'm really not here to make any claim

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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08-04-2017, 12:13 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(08-04-2017 11:08 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(08-04-2017 08:09 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  3:36 Nobody has heard of any scholars who take Karen Armstrong seriously

Question, how does one cite a lack of reference?

Google Scholar lists 1495 citations for Karen Armstrong's A History of God. Looks like these scholars nobody has heard of publish a lot!

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08-04-2017, 12:16 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(08-04-2017 12:04 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(08-04-2017 08:09 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  After watching this rebuttal video I'm not sure what to think:

Skepticism is healthy. Apply it to the critics as well as the source.
Excellent point

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08-04-2017, 12:24 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(08-04-2017 11:40 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  
(08-04-2017 10:28 AM)Paleophyte Wrote:  The following is not in the Bible:

The date of Jesus' birth. According to Christianity this is the second most important event in history but nobody thought to jot down Jesus' birthday. The date is not 1 AD since Herod dies in 4 BC. One might reasonably expect such a date to take the form of "In the 40th year of the reign of Augustus Caesar..."

The date of Jesus crucifxion and resurrection. According to Christianity this is the single most important event in history but not one of the authors recorded when it was. This in spite of the fact that several of them were supposedly there for the event.

The correct name of the main character. It isn't Jesus any more than it is "Hay-Zoose". Jesus was a Hebrew but "Jesus" is Greek. His proper name is actually fairly common.

So ask yourself, how bad a biographer/historian/storyteller do I have to be to have left out the correct name and dates of birth and death of the main character in my book? What would you think about a book on the life of JFK that didn't have that info? We know these facts about the Roman Emperors so how is it that we don't know them for Jesus Christ? Does this gross omission suggest the Hand of God?
It does seem odd but then I know what they'd say: "It's not important, it's not necessary for salvation, we don't need to know. "

Something not adding up again? Funny how that keeps happening. Consider

Is it important that Jesus once really wanted some figs? Is that trivial detail necessary for my salvation? Lot's of trivia made it into the Bible but these vital facts didn't. More than a little odd, no?

What sort of scripture gets its saviour's name wrong?

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08-04-2017, 12:52 PM (This post was last modified: 08-04-2017 01:01 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Why I Believe
(08-04-2017 12:03 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  Ok. But is wikipedia a respectable source? Not being funny, I am asking because I am not sure ho wikipedia is viewed amongst scholars.

For doing scholarly research, should Wikipedia itself be cited? No. Anonymous authorship is hard to cite after all, given the nature of the wiki format. However for quickly skimming a topic, often written for the benefit of layman? It's very helpful. Plus just about every other sentence, for a well sourced article, will have attribution tagged right in the sentence. Those numbers in brackets at the end of certain sentences? Those link right to the article source page at the bottom, which will list the source cited, and very often link to that source itself. If something is suspect, or you'd like to take a deeper dive, Wikipedia can quickly put you into contact with relevant primary or secondary sources.

Wikipedia shouldn't be the end of your research, but rather a potential start of it. You should always strive to get as close to the original source as possible, but even that's not always possible. I personally cannot read ancient Greek, so I will be dependent upon the secondary and tertiary sources that have translated it already, and then work from there. I also lack the skills to perform textual criticism myself, but I can read summaries written by others. Karen Armstrong and her books would be tertiary sources, as she is condensing information into her own words and with her own perspective, in her presenting the work of collected primary and secondary sources.

I mean, provided things haven't changed since I was taught the MLA standards in English class.

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08-04-2017, 12:53 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(08-04-2017 12:08 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  
(08-04-2017 11:33 AM)whateverist Wrote:  Gonna go out a limb and guess the reason you believe, OP, is that your many life experiences have confirmed it.
Can't say I've had that many to be honest

(08-04-2017 11:33 AM)whateverist Wrote:  That's fine for your personal use. Enjoy. But no way to you have anything to offer a skeptic disinclined to accept your claim. Thanks for playing.
I'm really not here to make any claim


Sorry, not addressed to you personally even though I was inspired by the title of the thread. That was more a generic response. I realize you're more complex than that. No offense intended.

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
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08-04-2017, 12:57 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(08-04-2017 12:53 PM)whateverist Wrote:  
(08-04-2017 12:08 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  Can't say I've had that many to be honest

I'm really not here to make any claim

Sorry, not addressed to you personally even though I was inspired by the title of the thread. That was more a generic response. I realize you're more complex than that. No offense intended.
It's all gravy baby Thumbsup

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08-04-2017, 01:04 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(08-04-2017 12:57 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  It's all gravy baby Thumbsup

Don't put your babies in gravy!

Use barbeque sauce!

I'm an atheist so I should know!

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08-04-2017, 01:12 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(08-04-2017 01:04 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(08-04-2017 12:57 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  It's all gravy baby Thumbsup

Don't put your babies in gravy!

Use barbeque sauce!

I'm an atheist so I should know!

Fuck that. Dodgy


Béarnaise. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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08-04-2017, 01:21 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(08-04-2017 01:12 PM)kim Wrote:  
(08-04-2017 01:04 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  Don't put your babies in gravy!

Use barbeque sauce!

I'm an atheist so I should know!

Fuck that. Dodgy


Béarnaise. Shy

Come one now, if you're gonna eat babies, go all out and use the English (because of course it is) fermented anchovies sauce.

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