Why I Believe
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08-04-2017, 01:27 PM
RE: Why I Believe
Their white wine is good...
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I'll agree.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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08-04-2017, 06:05 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(08-04-2017 08:09 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  
(08-04-2017 05:47 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  See? That's checking the foundation from outside the house.
After watching this rebuttal video I'm not sure what to think:

Here's a similar video from Prof. Robert Beckford. He's a professor of Theology and a Christian so his perspective and conclusions are a bit different but the overall story is very similar. It's a hour and 43 minutes long documentary. Sorry.

Fair warning, this is going to be panned by the deeply religious. That's what they do when you challenge their faith.




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08-04-2017, 06:10 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(08-04-2017 12:48 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  
(07-04-2017 08:59 PM)GoingUp Wrote:  Perhaps the answer may not lie in being convinced either way, but rather in understanding the situation for what it actually is? Let me demonstrate ...

Compare your statement of ...

"To be convinced there is no hell (not possible – as we cannot say either way for sure)"

To ...

To be convinced there is no Flying Spaghetti Monster (not possible – as we cannot say either way for sure)

So what you are left with in evaluating the validity of those two comparisons above is your ability to apply reason. So let's look at what we can reason.

1. We know that neither hell nor the FSM (Flying Spaghetti Monster) have any kind of evidence to support their existence.

2. We know that both are stories that originated either in written form, and/or from the imaginations of those who propagated them.

So, look at the FSM and ask yourself, "Why should I believe in such silliness?"

Now look at hell and ask yourself the same question.

It's not a matter of fear, really. It's a matter of reason.
Very insightful post, I like it. But because I do not have a fear of the FSM, because there is no threat of eternal agony attached to it, I can look at it objectively and without fear. The problem with hell, is it is bundled with eternal agony and so I simply cannot look at it in the same light. I do understand that you are saying the above way of looking at hell is precisely for the purpose of circumnavigating that fear, but it is still there. I've copy/pasted your instruction into my growing library of atheist themes though. I do think it is all about reason ultimately.

Okay, so let's make the FSM a really bad dude, and if you don't do what he says he will put you in a a big pot of noodles and boil you for eternity.

Strikes your funny bone, doesn't it?

Well, the concept of the hell you have been taught strikes my funny bone also. I mean, really .... it's like a child who threatens you if you don't do what he says:

"You are going to play MY way, or you can't play with my toys, nor be allowed in my room where the toys are, and you will stay outside my house forever!"

Try to understand the mentality of those who wrote these old fables of hell and heaven and this god you believe in. They existed 2000 years ago, in a mental environment where fear was the ruler of the empire, and where stories such as Hell/Hades were imposed upon the masses in an effort to elicit control over the uneducated and easily influenced.

We see these types of stories in numerous religions throughout history, in which all those religions professed a belief in god/gods.

Now, of all those religions in which numerous gods were professed to exist (estimated 10,000 gods), and numerous rewards and/or punishments were promised, you have decided to subscribe to the beliefs of just one religion and/or god.

But me? Well, just like you, neither do I believe in any of those 10,000 gods, and in fact the only difference between me and you is that I simply disbelieve in one less god than you do.

See? We are not so different after all.

Smile
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08-04-2017, 06:50 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(08-04-2017 06:10 PM)GoingUp Wrote:  
(08-04-2017 12:48 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Very insightful post, I like it. But because I do not have a fear of the FSM, because there is no threat of eternal agony attached to it, I can look at it objectively and without fear. The problem with hell, is it is bundled with eternal agony and so I simply cannot look at it in the same light. I do understand that you are saying the above way of looking at hell is precisely for the purpose of circumnavigating that fear, but it is still there. I've copy/pasted your instruction into my growing library of atheist themes though. I do think it is all about reason ultimately.

Okay, so let's make the FSM a really bad dude, and if you don't do what he says he will put you in a a big pot of noodles and boil you for eternity.

Strikes your funny bone, doesn't it?

Well, the concept of the hell you have been taught strikes my funny bone also. I mean, really .... it's like a child who threatens you if you don't do what he says:

"You are going to play MY way, or you can't play with my toys, nor be allowed in my room where the toys are, and you will stay outside my house forever!"

Try to understand the mentality of those who wrote these old fables of hell and heaven and this god you believe in. They existed 2000 years ago, in a mental environment where fear was the ruler of the empire, and where stories such as Hell/Hades were imposed upon the masses in an effort to elicit control over the uneducated and easily influenced.

We see these types of stories in numerous religions throughout history, in which all those religions professed a belief in god/gods.

Now, of all those religions in which numerous gods were professed to exist (estimated 10,000 gods), and numerous rewards and/or punishments were promised, you have decided to subscribe to the beliefs of just one religion and/or god.

But me? Well, just like you, neither do I believe in any of those 10,000 gods, and in fact the only difference between me and you is that I simply disbelieve in one less god than you do.

See? We are not so different after all.

Smile

" I simply disbelieve in one less god than you do." Consider No

You likely meant either
" I simply disbelieve in one more god than you do."
or
" I simply believe in one fewer god than you do."

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-04-2017, 08:31 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(08-04-2017 12:05 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  ... I intend pouring over some critical thinking books soon ...

That'll just make the pages stick together Tongue
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08-04-2017, 10:48 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(08-04-2017 01:21 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Come one now, if you're gonna eat babies, go all out and use the English (because of course it is) fermented anchovies sauce.

I drink that shit out of the bottle. Tongue

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08-04-2017, 11:34 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(08-04-2017 10:48 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(08-04-2017 01:21 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Come one now, if you're gonna eat babies, go all out and use the English (because of course it is) fermented anchovies sauce.

I drink that shit out of the bottle. Tongue

You should probably see a doctor about that... Consider




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09-04-2017, 01:30 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(08-04-2017 06:05 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(08-04-2017 08:09 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  After watching this rebuttal video I'm not sure what to think:

Here's a similar video from Prof. Robert Beckford. He's a professor of Theology and a Christian so his perspective and conclusions are a bit different but the overall story is very similar. It's a hour and 43 minutes long documentary. Sorry.

Fair warning, this is going to be panned by the deeply religious. That's what they do when you challenge their faith.



I watched this as it was posted by The Inquistion at the start of the thread. Thanks for the link though. Very interesting video.

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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09-04-2017, 01:37 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(08-04-2017 06:10 PM)GoingUp Wrote:  Okay, so let's make the FSM a really bad dude, and if you don't do what he says he will put you in a a big pot of noodles and boil you for eternity.

Strikes your funny bone, doesn't it?
It does yes

(08-04-2017 06:10 PM)GoingUp Wrote:  Well, the concept of the hell you have been taught strikes my funny bone also. I mean, really .... it's like a child who threatens you if you don't do what he says:

"You are going to play MY way, or you can't play with my toys, nor be allowed in my room where the toys are, and you will stay outside my house forever!"
The problem for me is my mental health, and all the weird stuff that's been going on in it (post #56). In short, I fear Heaven told me I am going to hell.

(08-04-2017 06:10 PM)GoingUp Wrote:  Try to understand the mentality of those who wrote these old fables of hell and heaven and this god you believe in. They existed 2000 years ago, in a mental environment where fear was the ruler of the empire, and where stories such as Hell/Hades were imposed upon the masses in an effort to elicit control over the uneducated and easily influenced.

We see these types of stories in numerous religions throughout history, in which all those religions professed a belief in god/gods.

Now, of all those religions in which numerous gods were professed to exist (estimated 10,000 gods), and numerous rewards and/or punishments were promised, you have decided to subscribe to the beliefs of just one religion and/or god.

But me? Well, just like you, neither do I believe in any of those 10,000 gods, and in fact the only difference between me and you is that I simply disbelieve in one less god than you do.

See? We are not so different after all.

Smile
Thank you for the reply Going Up.

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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09-04-2017, 02:54 AM
RE: Why I Believe
SeaJay, at this point, do you still believe? I mean I know you might still *want* to believe, if only to avoid getting toasted, but can you honestly say that you buy the package? If you go to Church today, can you sing the songs, listen to the preacher, think "Ah, so glad God has a wonderful plan for me" and continue on your way? I know I couldn't.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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