Why I Believe
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10-04-2017, 05:46 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(10-04-2017 01:06 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Yeah... obviously that did not happen. If you were reading any other book you'd recognize that bit as fictional. They're probably trying to justify their side of the battle by writing how God helped them.

You'd think he could help a bit more directly, huh? Just instantly char all the "enemies". Done. God sure likes to pansy about Tongue

They did indeed think the sun went round the earth, just as they thought the earth was flat. It's perfectly understandable that they did, given their lack of scientific knowledge.

I always like thinking through different scenarios about how god that has immense power as well as being omniscient could effect certain outcomes with minimal loss of life and minimal suffering.

God could have simply impressed on the people in that area that they should move somewhere else, there's no reason for a single drop of blood to be spilled.

Every time the bible has something like this in it, it serves as evidence of it being contrived by barbaric people that lacked imagination.

It's just too easy to come up with a better scenario than what the biblical writers came up with.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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10-04-2017, 05:51 AM
RE: Why I Believe
I think these stories are often about justifying the slaughter of a bunch of people. If God is written as being on your side, then you are the good guys.

But they can't just write, "God decided we're the good guys so he killed all the bad guys" or "God turned the bad guys into good guys" because it has to be at least semi-believable... I guess Tongue

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10-04-2017, 05:59 AM
RE: Why I Believe
I want to attack those people I dislike.
How can I convince others in my city to join in with me.

I'll invent a god with lots of powers who will torture them after they die if they don't follow my commands.

"Did it work ?"
-- People are fairly violent. All you need to do is give them a little incentive.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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10-04-2017, 06:47 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(09-04-2017 11:48 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(09-04-2017 07:06 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  One last thing:

I'm not intending to tell people what is and isn't evidence to them. Everyone has their own ideas and standards. I'm not claiming mine "are right". I just make my case as to why I think the way I do, and people can take it or leave it.

At the same time, somehow in science there's an objective standard and a consensus is arrived at - apart from the odd maverick who may up-end the whole apple cart with a new, more powerful idea, much to everyone's delight, yet in religion everyone has their own truth, and that truth is precious and may not be challenged - there's no consensus and heretics who believe something else are to be feared, not celebrated.

Religion is built on the idea of protecting some stupid idea. Science is built around tearing down stuff that doesn't work. As much as religion would love to be able to claim the same effectiveness as science, we cure more people wholesale in a week than have been cured by prayer in the last several thousand years.

Facepalm It's apparent the more one applies thoughtful consideration of what's being stated the more sees double standards to posit one's view. I feel confident if I stated that prayer cures people I would be bombarded with challenges to prove the claim and statements saying the effects of prayer are unfalsifiable yet am I the only one that questions the above claim? Again Facepalm

Food for thought are these results of a poll of doctors: Perhaps the most surprising result of the survey,” the report notes, “is that a majority of doctors (55 percent) said that they have seen treatment results in their patients that they would consider miraculous (45 percent do not).
Read more at http://mobile.wnd.com/2004/12/28152/#sfz...Res7K6m.99
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10-04-2017, 07:06 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(10-04-2017 06:47 AM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(09-04-2017 11:48 PM)morondog Wrote:  At the same time, somehow in science there's an objective standard and a consensus is arrived at - apart from the odd maverick who may up-end the whole apple cart with a new, more powerful idea, much to everyone's delight, yet in religion everyone has their own truth, and that truth is precious and may not be challenged - there's no consensus and heretics who believe something else are to be feared, not celebrated.

Religion is built on the idea of protecting some stupid idea. Science is built around tearing down stuff that doesn't work. As much as religion would love to be able to claim the same effectiveness as science, we cure more people wholesale in a week than have been cured by prayer in the last several thousand years.

Facepalm It's apparent the more one applies thoughtful consideration of what's being stated the more sees double standards to posit one's view. I feel confident if I stated that prayer cures people I would be bombarded with challenges to prove the claim and statements saying the effects of prayer are unfalsifiable yet am I the only one that questions the above claim? Again Facepalm

Food for thought are these results of a poll of doctors: Perhaps the most surprising result of the survey,” the report notes, “is that a majority of doctors (55 percent) said that they have seen treatment results in their patients that they would consider miraculous (45 percent do not).
Read more at http://mobile.wnd.com/2004/12/28152/#sfz...Res7K6m.99

Polls of doctors huh? If you claim prayer cures disease, post evidence. There's a wealth of randomized controlled trials proving the efficacy of modern medical techniques. I'll admit my post was bait, and you took it. Please define for me a "miracle" in an unambiguous fashion.

ETA: And find for me ONE person provably "super-naturally" cured - and this means not just "we don't understand how" but "God did it".

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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10-04-2017, 07:08 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(10-04-2017 06:47 AM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(09-04-2017 11:48 PM)morondog Wrote:  At the same time, somehow in science there's an objective standard and a consensus is arrived at - apart from the odd maverick who may up-end the whole apple cart with a new, more powerful idea, much to everyone's delight, yet in religion everyone has their own truth, and that truth is precious and may not be challenged - there's no consensus and heretics who believe something else are to be feared, not celebrated.

Religion is built on the idea of protecting some stupid idea. Science is built around tearing down stuff that doesn't work. As much as religion would love to be able to claim the same effectiveness as science, we cure more people wholesale in a week than have been cured by prayer in the last several thousand years.

Facepalm It's apparent the more one applies thoughtful consideration of what's being stated the more sees double standards to posit one's view. I feel confident if I stated that prayer cures people I would be bombarded with challenges to prove the claim and statements saying the effects of prayer are unfalsifiable yet am I the only one that questions the above claim? Again Facepalm

Food for thought are these results of a poll of doctors: Perhaps the most surprising result of the survey,” the report notes, “is that a majority of doctors (55 percent) said that they have seen treatment results in their patients that they would consider miraculous (45 percent do not).
Read more at http://mobile.wnd.com/2004/12/28152/#sfz...Res7K6m.99

That was a survey about what doctors BELIEVE not about EVIDENCE. Drinking Beverage

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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10-04-2017, 07:11 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(10-04-2017 06:47 AM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  Food for thought are these results of a poll of doctors: Perhaps the most surprising result of the survey,” the report notes, “is that a majority of doctors (55 percent) said that they have seen treatment results in their patients that they would consider miraculous (45 percent do not).
Read more at http://mobile.wnd.com/2004/12/28152/#sfz...Res7K6m.99
"A new survey" which is never cited or identified from a right-wing web site that has been widely criticized for its promotion of conspiracy theories? Sure, that's credible! Where do I sign up? I've seen the light! I want to return to the bosom of Christianity!
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10-04-2017, 07:31 AM
RE: Why I Believe
Oh, dear ATT Big Grin Please tell me, if you were very sick, would you go to the priest or the hospital?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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10-04-2017, 07:44 AM
RE: Why I Believe
If you can't find a reason why one should attribute a single cure to a deity, then maybe the statement that we fallible humans are better at curing disease than God isn't so unreasonable hmm Smile

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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10-04-2017, 07:44 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(10-04-2017 07:31 AM)morondog Wrote:  Oh, dear ATT Big Grin Please tell me, if you were very sick, would you go to the priest or the hospital?

Nigeria campaign to stop women giving birth in church

"They do fasting and prayer here, and if you are pregnant you need to go to the place where there is God and there is daily fasting and prayers.
"At the hospital there is nothing like prayer. They don't pray. They only give you injections. But as you pray at the church, you get closer to God.
"On the day of your delivery, God will help you and you will deliver successfully."
Ms Martin believes that the church and God will offer more protection than modern health facilities. Unfortunately, there are reports of many women dying while giving birth in the facilities provided by a church

Later, she explains her motivation: "I have worked in hospitals in Nigeria and I have first-hand experience of pregnant women being rushed in at critical times when they can no longer be helped.
"Some are even confirmed dead on arrival, and it happens quite often. I have taken it as an obligation to save lives and reduce incidences of maternal mortality relating to child birth and delivery, knowing what it means for a mother to die and leaving children behind."
."

The blood of those women and their children is on all you idiots, stuck in the bronze age Censored

("Thinking" forsooth! Pray ( Laughat ) tell, which part of your anatomy do you do all that thinking with? 'Cause it sure as (the non-existent) hell of your non-existent monster-cum-security blanket of a god ain't your brain (or what passes for it) Drinking Beverage

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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