Why I Believe
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10-04-2017, 04:30 PM
RE: Why I Believe
Let's just all take a break. Shy
How about 10 or 12 minutes?
And since we all love Phil ...




This is for you, SeaJay.
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10-04-2017, 04:31 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(10-04-2017 04:17 PM)kim Wrote:  I'm going to bump this ....
(10-04-2017 10:37 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Hey A_Thinking_Theist, can I ask you to start a new thread with your questions so we both don't have to dig through each others for relevant replies?

I find your post content interesting but I just think it would better accommodate both of us and others in the long run

This would be a great idea. Thumbsup
I think my request got a bit swamped in the back and forth though.

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10-04-2017, 04:34 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(10-04-2017 03:55 PM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  Look guys I didn't come here to preach, judge nor condemn. As best as I can remember I haven't been quoting scripture or predicting hell fire for non believers. As in my introduction thread I am here as a way to learn how those who believe differently than I logically and rationally justify their position. I have tried to be respectful. I feel I have tried to be polite, not attacking others but admittedly using a little sarcasm now and then, but mainly asking questions and thoughtfully applying logic to the replies. Many have replied respectfully and logically with reason. Thank you, it has been enlightening. To those may have seen my posts as offensive or hostile my sincere apologies, that was not my intention.

A few suggestions for you then:

- Start your own topic. Hijacking a thread is bad manners no matter where you are.

- Try a less adversarial approach. Calling BS from the word "Go!" is going to influence people without making any friends whatsoever.

- A 1-on-1 might be a better venue for you. You're unlikely to be able to keep up with the responses otherwise.

- If you want to know what/how/if we think simply ask. It isn't as if we're particularly shy with our opinions. As with any self-reflection the degree of honesty and accuracy is going to be a bit variable but you'll at least get to watch the gears smoke.

- Visit the rest of the forum to actually get to know us. This section is a shooting gallery where conflict is maximized and, as a result, communication minimized. What's your position on chocolate, exoplanets and bi-directional underwear?

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10-04-2017, 04:37 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(10-04-2017 04:30 PM)kim Wrote:  Let's just all take a break. Shy
How about 10 or 12 minutes?
And since we all love Phil ...




This is for you, SeaJay.
Heart
That's a beaut

Thank you!

I think it's the same guy who did the 'Science Saved my Soul from Religion' vid too. That's another cracker.

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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10-04-2017, 04:42 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(10-04-2017 04:28 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  Coming back to whether the bible is "man made":

Absolutely. It's a book made by men. What reason do we have to think it is anything else? Other than the myths surrounding the book, what could possibly lead us to believe God was "talking" to the people who wrote it?

If God wanted to communicate with us, and this is the method he chose, then he's either stupid, very powerless, or wanted his communication to be indistinguishable from a work of fiction. God could just communicate directly with all of us, presumably. Instead he's sitting back and watching everyone argue about what the message is supposed to mean. Watching people kill each other over it.

If a person who had never heard anything about any sort of religion picked up the bible and read it, they'd conclude it is mainly fiction with a bit of history peppered into it. Just like someone who reads Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter. There's really nothing special about this book. It's just been hyped up beyond belief.
Your post got me thinking about how to really test the veracity of bible claims. Test the prophecies that are made within its pages.

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10-04-2017, 04:43 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(10-04-2017 03:12 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  
(10-04-2017 02:38 PM)SYZ Wrote:  

But to answer your question, I'd phone the ambulance.

LOL... suddenly this guy has zero faith in his purported god. Who'd a think it eh?

Quote:Your post got me thinking about how to really test the veracity of bible claims. Test the prophecies that are made within its pages.

There is not one single "prophecy" [the foretelling or prediction of what is to come] in your book of fairy stories. Sorry.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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10-04-2017, 04:50 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(10-04-2017 04:42 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  Your post got me thinking about how to really test the veracity of bible claims. Test the prophecies that are made within its pages.

It's easy to make true prophesies:

- Make them vague.

- Make them self-fulfilling.

- Make them say what you want them to say by bending the words.

- Make them after the fact.

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10-04-2017, 04:50 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(10-04-2017 04:43 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(10-04-2017 03:12 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  But to answer your question, I'd phone the ambulance.

LOL... suddenly this guy has zero faith in his purported god. Who'd a think it eh?
I never said anything about faith being more reliable than science/doctors/surgeons. I think you are mixing me up with someone else (this is a prime example of why I'd like A_Thinking_Theist to start his/her own thread).

Quote:Your post got me thinking about how to really test the veracity of bible claims. Test the prophecies that are made within its pages.

(10-04-2017 04:43 PM)SYZ Wrote:  There is not one single "prophecy" [the foretelling or prediction of what is to come] in your book of fairy stories. Sorry.
That's what I am going to research

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10-04-2017, 04:52 PM
RE: Why I Believe
And yeah, Phil makes some damned good videos.

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10-04-2017, 05:10 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(10-04-2017 04:42 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  
(10-04-2017 04:28 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  Coming back to whether the bible is "man made":

Absolutely. It's a book made by men. What reason do we have to think it is anything else? Other than the myths surrounding the book, what could possibly lead us to believe God was "talking" to the people who wrote it?

If God wanted to communicate with us, and this is the method he chose, then he's either stupid, very powerless, or wanted his communication to be indistinguishable from a work of fiction. God could just communicate directly with all of us, presumably. Instead he's sitting back and watching everyone argue about what the message is supposed to mean. Watching people kill each other over it.

If a person who had never heard anything about any sort of religion picked up the bible and read it, they'd conclude it is mainly fiction with a bit of history peppered into it. Just like someone who reads Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter. There's really nothing special about this book. It's just been hyped up beyond belief.
Your post got me thinking about how to really test the veracity of bible claims. Test the prophecies that are made within its pages.

Most of the so-called prophecies in the bible refer to later events that are also documented in the bible.

The others are way too vague. A prophecy needs to be very specific. When will something happen? Where? What exactly will happen?

But let's say it does contain some "true prophecies", for the sake of argument. What does that tell us? Either the authors had some way of knowing or accurately predicting the future, or they got lucky. This doesn't provide any evidence about the involvement of a God. We're just left not knowing how they managed to predict it. They don't get to just say it's from God and it's automatically true. That is a separate claim that needs evidence, and all people ever say is "How else could they have known?". That is the classic argument from ignorance.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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