Why I Believe
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11-04-2017, 11:29 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(11-04-2017 11:08 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  True. I started a thread asking for recommendations on critical thinking. First thing I ordered was 'Logically Fallacious' by Bo Bennet PhD

Interesting - never heard of him.

Sounds pretty cool - positive secular humanist, according to his bio. I might check his work out some more. Sounds like no nonsense commentary on a variety of social topics. Thumbsup

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11-04-2017, 11:32 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(11-04-2017 11:25 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Why won't my above replies to momsurroundedbyboys post, display?

You don't have your [quote thingys] and your [/quote thingy's] in the correct spots. Lots of proof reading for you! Tongue

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11-04-2017, 11:35 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(10-04-2017 12:41 PM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(10-04-2017 11:30 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ________
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As a scientist, I can tell you that I do know religious scientists who are very good scientists. However, they compartmentalize the religion. I have had several discussions with them and most of the ones I have talked to about it admit they compartmentalize. So what? It has no bearing on how rigorous they apply their scientific skills. The AAAS doesn't judge their membership based on non-science. Why don't you actually look up the criteria for the AAS? You will not find a religions question.

So what? I would answer by asking first did you talk to all of them, the rest may not compartmentalizeson. Secondly if a scientist affirms a faith in a deity yet can objectively still be viewed respectfully to retain his knowledge and ability to rigorously apply their scientific skills yet the majority of the American public who also claim the same belief are viewed as stupid, gullible and misguided who have no evidence of a deity but one that maintains equal footing with FSM, unicorns and pink elephants. This seems to be faulty logic does it not?

No. You need to bone up on the definition of "logic".
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11-04-2017, 11:35 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(11-04-2017 11:25 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Why won't my above replies to momsurroundedbyboys post, display?

You added an extra thingy that wasn't needed at the beginning.

I fixed....Smile


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11-04-2017, 11:36 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(11-04-2017 11:32 AM)kim Wrote:  
(11-04-2017 11:25 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Why won't my above replies to momsurroundedbyboys post, display?

You don't have your [quote thingys] and your [/quote thingy's] in the correct spots. Lots of proof reading for you! Tongue
Thank you Sensei Thumbsup

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11-04-2017, 11:37 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(11-04-2017 11:35 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(11-04-2017 11:25 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Why won't my above replies to momsurroundedbyboys post, display?

You added an extra thingy that wasn't needed at the beginning.

I fixed....Smile
Thank you tooThumbsup

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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11-04-2017, 11:39 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(11-04-2017 11:35 AM)kemo boy Wrote:  No. You need to bone up on the definition of "logic".

I agree but ... go bone somewhere else. Shy

ATT has their own thread for this continued argument.

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11-04-2017, 11:39 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(11-04-2017 11:35 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(11-04-2017 11:25 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Why won't my above replies to momsurroundedbyboys post, display?

You added an extra thingy that wasn't needed at the beginning.

I fixed....Smile

All this technical jargon is confusing...

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11-04-2017, 11:42 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(11-04-2017 11:39 AM)kim Wrote:  I agree but ... go bone somewhere else someone.

Fixt.

Am guessing this would be much more useful. For everybody involved Drinking Beverage

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11-04-2017, 12:50 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(05-04-2017 05:40 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  EDIT: Thanks all very much for the considered and (quick!) responses. I am sorry that I cannot reply to every one of them fully or even at all (I think I'd go mad Smile ) but I do appreciate them, and I read them. I also copy/paste posts and/or certain parts of posts into a word document too.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Hi all

Thanks again for the welcomes (from here: http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...d1164883), it's much appreciated.

unfogged asked me why I believe there is a god and why it is the Christian God. I like that; straight to the point. I'll try and answer here (you might have encountered this post on another atheist website).

Fear is the key. Not sure if anyone expected that answer, but it's true. For the most part fear is the key. I mean, it's not just fear, I do have a belief it is true. But here's the situation:

I have major issues with Christianity, from slavery, brutality, misogynistic practices, the need for a human sacrifice, the threat of an eternal agonising afterlife for some, the need for any of this. But I am scared of being wrong. I have a real phobia about going to hell. I feel trapped and as I see it, there are only two ways out for me.

1. To be convinced there is no hell (not possible – as we cannot say either way for sure)

2. To, not believe. All I will say is that I have major doubts. I'm having a real crisis of faith.

I ask myself, if my thought processes were not inhibited by fear and anxiety, would I still believe? Well, having a Heavenly Father sounds great to me. Someone to love and care for you, and having the biggest and strongest Dad in the world is what every child inside us wants. Someone to pick you up every time you fall down, someone to tell you everything is going to be ok.

All that said, if I could push aside all concepts of Christianity and have a mind unfettered with Christian tradition and influences (all of them), would I still believe it was all true?

Truth is, I’m too anxious to even ask myself that, which in itself speaks volumes. I can relate to Pascal’s Wager.

I ask myself, why does an omnipotent (all powerful), omniscient (all knowing) creator, feel the need to create a torture chamber, where the wicked are sent to spend an eternity in unspeakable, unthinkable agony? Why not just utterly annihilate them? Not enough punishment? Ok, but why does there need to be any punishment in the first place? Surely an omnipotent and omniscient creator could just show us the error of our ways, teach us so we know why we did the things we did, and then we can all live in peace?

I see no point in it, but here is my problem:

Even if I do not see any point in it at all – it doesn’t mean it is not true. Sure it doesn't mean it is true, but that's where I am right now.

Do I only believe out of a fear of punishment? It’s probably not the ‘only’ reason, but it is a major part of it. Truth be told, I am not in a position to really answer that question yet.

I very probably will ask questions concerning biblical verses and such, but I assure you it is not to force my beliefs on anyone. As I always say, I really have no axe to grind and certainly have no agenda I want to push on anyone.

The reason for my questions (and questions to subsequent answers I may receive) is to really test what I believe, and why I believe. If my questions stand up to scrutiny, if I cannot have my faith torn down, then I will remain a Christian. Conversely, if I end up not believing because my beliefs cannot stand up to scrutiny, then I will seriously question what I believe, in fact, I may not have that option because regardless of what I want to believe, the truth is the truth.

Thanks all

According to my omniscient mind you will go to hell for believing in Christ. You have a dilemma. Who do you fear more me or Jesus?

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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