Why I Believe
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12-04-2017, 05:31 AM (This post was last modified: 12-04-2017 05:35 AM by houseofcantor.)
RE: Why I Believe
(12-04-2017 05:25 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  The confusion is that, despite all the above, it doesn't seem to have much effect on what I believe. My rejection of this or that does not 'turn off' my faith as it were. Truth be told, it isn't because of fear either. It feels like there's something missing, some final piece of the jigsaw out there I haven't encountered yet.

You could try that hell experiment I mentioned in that other thread. Evil_monster

The wise man doesn't live on the mountain to be an asshole, he lives there so that the seeker ponders the question while undertaking a perilous journey.

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12-04-2017, 05:32 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(12-04-2017 05:25 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  I'm feeling edgy, uncertain, and a little confused.

The confusion is that, despite all the above, it doesn't seem to have much effect on what I believe. My rejection of this or that does not 'turn off' my faith as it were. Truth be told, it isn't because of fear either. It feels like there's something missing, some final piece of the jigsaw out there I haven't encountered yet. I feel flat and numb about it all.

It will help to let go of the need to have an answer for everything. Not having an answer based on fact doesn't mean the answer is god.

Keep reading and asking questions. Don't fill in the answers with the fallback position of god and faith in the same.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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12-04-2017, 05:34 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(12-04-2017 05:25 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  I'm feeling edgy, uncertain, and a little confused.

It's like, I don't believe the Genesis creation text is scientifically accurate, I don't believe the Noah's Ark story, I accept not all contradictions in the bible can be explained away. I see there is strong evidence that Jesus started out as an apocalyptic prophet who did believe he was going to die and return soon (in their lifetimes). I believe some prophecies just haven't come to pass, such as Egypt being a desolation for 40 years. I've ordered Karen Armstrong's book because I believe the creation of monotheism is spelt out in those pages. The idea that Adam and Eve were ever in a position to sin like they did when it could have gone any other way, and their descendants being punished as a result. There are things depicted in the bible that I believe are just plain wrong, scientifically, the sun standing still in Joshua, and morally suspect, the treatment of women, slavery, infinite punishment for finite crimes etc.

There's a lot here that just doesn't make sense to me nor do I believe, yet I'm sat here anxious that I feel as if I am still in the same boat I was yesterday.

From a moral standpoint, I find myself in the weird situation where I do not approve of most of what my belief is made up of.

From a scientific standpoint, I find myself in the situation where there's a lot I just don't accept as true.

The confusion is that, despite all the above, it doesn't seem to have much effect on what I believe. My rejection of this or that does not 'turn off' my faith as it were. Truth be told, it isn't because of fear either. It feels like there's something missing, some final piece of the jigsaw out there I haven't encountered yet. I feel flat and numb about it all.

> Have you ever looked into the philosophy of Humanism?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism
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12-04-2017, 05:37 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(12-04-2017 05:31 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(12-04-2017 05:25 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  The confusion is that, despite all the above, it doesn't seem to have much effect on what I believe. My rejection of this or that does not 'turn off' my faith as it were. Truth be told, it isn't because of fear either. It feels like there's something missing, some final piece of the jigsaw out there I haven't encountered yet.

You could try that hell experiment I mentioned in that other thread. Evil_monster

The wise man doesn't live on the mountain to be an asshole, he lives there so that the seeker ponders the question while undertaking a perilous journey.

And the answer ain't at the top of the mountain, it's on the way back down. Sisyphus taught me that. Big Grin

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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12-04-2017, 05:38 AM (This post was last modified: 12-04-2017 07:51 AM by Vera.)
RE: Why I Believe
It's a process, SeaJay, it takes time. Your brain needs to be ready to let go, I guess. Just keep reading works that tear into the vile stuff, and mock it.

And, speaking of morally suspect, let's assume that whole Adam and Eve poppycock were true and billions of people deserved to live lives of suffering and pain and injustice for ages and ages, just because a broad wanted some apples that one time, how is it in anyway fair for animals and the rest of life on the planet to be suffering the way they are? What kind of a monster is okay with this?









(and that's before we move on to the larger critters)

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if any of the monotheistic gods actually existed, the universe wouldn't be big enough to hold their vileness and monstrosity.

Luckily, they're just particularly nasty figments of the terrified imaginations of people who had no idea where the sun went at night. But now we know much more and have even managed to evolve as a society a bit. Let's let their abhorrent mythologies finally die a long overdue death.

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12-04-2017, 05:43 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(12-04-2017 05:38 AM)Vera Wrote:  It's a process, SeaJay, it takes time. You brain needs to be ready to let go, I guess. Just keep reading works that tear into the vile stuff, and mock it.

And, speaking of morally suspect, let's assume that whole Adam and Eve poppycock were true and billions of people deserved to live lives of suffering and pain and injustice for ages and ages, just because a broad wanted some apples that one time, how is it in anyway fair for animals and the rest of life on the planet to be suffering the way they are? What kind of a monster is okay with this?









(and that's before we move on to the larger critters)

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if any of the monotheistic gods actually existed, the universe wouldn't be big enough to hold their vileness and monstrosity.

Luckily, they're just particularly nasty figments of the terrified imaginations of people who had no idea where the sun went at night. But now we know much more and have even managed to evolve as a society a bit. Let's let their abhorrent mythologies finally die a long overdue death.

> “In the end, religion isn't the biggest idea that man has ever had. Science is. Religion is an attempt at reassurance where science is a commitment to exploration. Religion is fearful; science is unafraid. Science pushes back the darkness; religion invites it in.” (Phillip Adams) Consider
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12-04-2017, 05:43 AM
RE: Why I Believe
There's a simple test to determine whether one should keep religion or not. "Does this religion make me more or less of a dick?" Pretty much the test for keeping anything.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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12-04-2017, 05:46 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(12-04-2017 05:34 AM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  
(12-04-2017 05:25 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  I'm feeling edgy, uncertain, and a little confused.

It's like, I don't believe the Genesis creation text is scientifically accurate, I don't believe the Noah's Ark story, I accept not all contradictions in the bible can be explained away. I see there is strong evidence that Jesus started out as an apocalyptic prophet who did believe he was going to die and return soon (in their lifetimes). I believe some prophecies just haven't come to pass, such as Egypt being a desolation for 40 years. I've ordered Karen Armstrong's book because I believe the creation of monotheism is spelt out in those pages. The idea that Adam and Eve were ever in a position to sin like they did when it could have gone any other way, and their descendants being punished as a result. There are things depicted in the bible that I believe are just plain wrong, scientifically, the sun standing still in Joshua, and morally suspect, the treatment of women, slavery, infinite punishment for finite crimes etc.

There's a lot here that just doesn't make sense to me nor do I believe, yet I'm sat here anxious that I feel as if I am still in the same boat I was yesterday.

From a moral standpoint, I find myself in the weird situation where I do not approve of most of what my belief is made up of.

From a scientific standpoint, I find myself in the situation where there's a lot I just don't accept as true.

The confusion is that, despite all the above, it doesn't seem to have much effect on what I believe. My rejection of this or that does not 'turn off' my faith as it were. Truth be told, it isn't because of fear either. It feels like there's something missing, some final piece of the jigsaw out there I haven't encountered yet. I feel flat and numb about it all.

> Have you ever looked into the philosophy of Humanism?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanis
Can't say I have but I'll take a look

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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12-04-2017, 05:47 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(12-04-2017 05:31 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(12-04-2017 05:25 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  The confusion is that, despite all the above, it doesn't seem to have much effect on what I believe. My rejection of this or that does not 'turn off' my faith as it were. Truth be told, it isn't because of fear either. It feels like there's something missing, some final piece of the jigsaw out there I haven't encountered yet.

You could try that hell experiment I mentioned in that other thread. Evil_monster

The wise man doesn't live on the mountain to be an asshole, he lives there so that the seeker ponders the question while undertaking a perilous journey.

I went back to page 36 but couldn't find the experiment you suggested.

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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12-04-2017, 05:48 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(12-04-2017 05:37 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(12-04-2017 05:31 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  The wise man doesn't live on the mountain to be an asshole, he lives there so that the seeker ponders the question while undertaking a perilous journey.

And the answer ain't at the top of the mountain, it's on the way back down. Sisyphus taught me that. Big Grin

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(I kinda lied, of course the wise man is an asshole. Tongue )

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