Why I Believe
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12-04-2017, 04:02 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(12-04-2017 03:59 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Do not use google to translate Girly

should be a forum rule. Angel

I knew it's sth. to do with porn even pre-Girly. But ain't nobody got time for porn one ain't being paid to handle, as 'twere Angel

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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12-04-2017, 04:33 PM
RE: Why I Believe
There's a lot of difference between believing:

1) "There is a god" - some generic intelligent designer which we know nothing about.

and

2) "The Christian God exists" - a character in a storybook is magically real. The creator and manager of our entire massive expanse of reality is fixated in our tiny planet. It screws around with it daily. It is so insecure it demands worship from us peons, going so far as to threaten to put us in a whole other place it designed just to torture us in.

The first is a few unnecessary assumptions, but I understand why people might feel it is the case. The second is about twenty absolutely ludicrous assumptions, and has no correlation with reality.

If there is a god, it's not any of the dumb characters people made up and wrote down.

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12-04-2017, 05:17 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(12-04-2017 01:25 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  
(11-04-2017 04:21 PM)kim Wrote:  Here's a great audio file to listen to.
It's a couple of hours long but it's very funny and quite heartfelt.



Julia Sweeney did this live.

Heart
Thanks Kim - much appreciated

EDIT: Just watched it. Very good. Very touching at around 1h 36m too.

I thought that was good as well but I think the one by Evid3nce was even more powerful though.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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13-04-2017, 12:10 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(12-04-2017 05:17 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  
(12-04-2017 01:25 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Thanks Kim - much appreciated

EDIT: Just watched it. Very good. Very touching at around 1h 36m too.

I thought that was good as well but I think the one by Evid3nce was even more powerful though.
Evid3nce's video almost caused me to become an atheist when I watched it a few years ago. It's very though provoking

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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13-04-2017, 12:35 AM
RE: Why I Believe
Thought I'd explain what happened to me a couple of years ago

November 2010 all this started, my fear of hell, and resultant therapy

In an attempt to shoot down my faith I started watching atheist videos and reading books by Dawkins, Hitchens, and Dan Barker

By late 2015 I was almost on the verge of admitting to myself I no longer believed. Almost.

In a sort of attempt to verify this, I performed a test. I got down on my knees and prayed for a sign, any sign. This was a Friday morning. All day nothing happened.

Next morning, I received a hand-written letter from one of the previous churches I frequented, they were asking me to come back. I hadn't heard from them in years.

This shook me as I saw it as a prayer answered. Hardly any contact from any church, and then a handwritten letter less than 24 hours after I prayed? I thought that's it, that's a sign. Today I realise the letter had already been sent out to me before I got on my knees to pray, so it was nothing but a coincidence.

Still, its effect was to keep me believing, now I'm here today testing my faith once more.

My point is that I realise critical thinking and reasoning would have helped me here.

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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13-04-2017, 12:55 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(13-04-2017 12:35 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  In a sort of attempt to verify this, I performed a test. I got down on my knees and prayed for a sign, any sign. This was a Friday morning. All day nothing happened.

Next morning, I received a hand-written letter from one of the previous churches I frequented, they were asking me to come back. I hadn't heard from them in years.

The problem here is you gave "God" a massive target. *Any* sign??? Jeez, if you'd tripped and fallen on your face you'd probably have counted it. Or what if you'd just finished praying and a massive thunderstorm happened? Or you were driving later and saw a "Jesus is the Only Answer" roadside billboard, along with some cheerful image of three dead guys on a hill?

All of those would probably qualify. Even if you get more specific it's still highly problematic. Let's say you say to Jesus "Please give me a sign. I want something definitive (as Gideon did, and he got one, so why not you? Admittedly you're not the sole opposition to a horde of Midianites but surely God gets the analogy). So... let's say that you ask that there's a minor earthquake. Not anything big, just enough to scare any gays in your local area. And lo, three months after you prayed, there's a minor earthquake a few towns away, gets in the press and everything.

The problem here is still, firstly, minor earthquakes do happen all the time. Secondly gays gonna bang no matter what. Even a magnitude 6 don't scare them. Thirdly can you see above there was still too big of a target. There was no specified time frame, the local earthquake thing wasn't helluva specific to location either, the one that eventually came was several towns away.

The bottom line is, if you're looking for a sign and you sufficiently want it, you will find it somehow. Human mind works that way.

If you were to ask for a sign, why not something that can't be confused? Ask God to levitate your ordinary coffee cup and make it sing La Marseillaise right in front of you. Of course, the priests have already covered that with "That shit's below the dignity of God" - because they know it never works.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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13-04-2017, 02:03 AM
RE: Why I Believe
It's weird how everyone has been conditioned to accept that "a sign" is a reasonable way for God to communicate. (This isn't having a go at Seajay at all.)

It's like God is in a coma, and we're at bedside, hoping he will waggle a toe for us just to let us know he can hear.

If someone asks me a question, I give them a very clear, direct answer, right after. I don't wait a month and then go knock down some buildings, and leave people to figure out what that means. God should really be better at communicating than me.

Of course the reason is that God, if there is one, isn't doing anything. He's probably not paying any attention at all and has moved on to another experiment or whatever and doesn't realize this manifestation is still happening. So we have to find ways of pretending things that happen anyway are "God doing stuff".

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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13-04-2017, 02:13 AM
RE: Why I Believe
Just another random thought...

We have people all over the world worshipping different Gods. People are truly convinced that their God is actually doing things, including having a personal relationship with them as part of their religion. So this appears to leave only three options:

1) There are actually multiple Gods.

2) All these gods are in fact the same God, and it doesn't care what religion you are in at all.

3) It's possible for someone to be truly convinced a God is having a relationship with them, and doing all sorts of things, when in fact nothing is happening.

Since most religious people (I expect) would deny 1 is the case, and clearly their religion is important enough to them that they'd deny 2 could be the case either, that just leaves 3. And once you see that it's so easy to be utterly fooled, it's time to evaluate your own experience properly.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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13-04-2017, 04:21 AM
RE: Why I Believe
Thanks all for the replies, it makes sense

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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13-04-2017, 05:17 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(13-04-2017 12:55 AM)morondog Wrote:  ...along with some cheerful image of three dead guys on a hill?

Laugh out load

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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