Why I Believe
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13-04-2017, 09:34 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(13-04-2017 12:35 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  ---
In a sort of attempt to verify this, I performed a test. I got down on my knees and prayed for a sign, any sign. This was a Friday morning. All day nothing happened.

Next morning, I received a hand-written letter from one of the previous churches I frequented, they were asking me to come back. I hadn't heard from them in years.

This shook me as I saw it as a prayer answered. Hardly any contact from any church, and then a handwritten letter less than 24 hours after I prayed? I thought that's it, that's a sign.
---

Your upbringing got you used to setting up your own codependent relationships, so that you would never be able to be abandoned.

You saw a relationship ending and already decided that was not going to happen.

Signs. Facepalm

The next time you think you might be "seeing a sign", just realize that a sign is a commercial placed by someone trying to sell you something. When that someone is you, the commercial is tailored to perfectly meet your needs.

Accept the coincidence for what it is and nothing more.


Only you can prevent forest fires.
Only you can control you.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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13-04-2017, 04:37 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(13-04-2017 04:21 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Thanks all for the replies, it makes sense
It did at the start and you saw the sense at the start. But something making sense isn't enough, it has to mesh with our feelings for belief to adjust itself to the sense. But the meshing doesn't start by meshing but by clashing, and it takes time for the machinery of emotion to rearrange itself into harmony with sense.

I hope you find your fears abating, entirely apart from religiosity, and if what's sensible can keep nudging your feelings clear of fear, so much the better. I'm impressed with your thoughtfulness and persistence.
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14-04-2017, 03:00 PM
RE: Why I Believe
Is it possible to believe but not want to worship?

As far as labels go (atheism etc) is concerned, what would that be called?

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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14-04-2017, 03:05 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(14-04-2017 03:00 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  Is it possible to believe but not want to worship?

As far as labels go (atheism etc) is concerned, what would that be called?

Rebel with a cause.

#sigh
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14-04-2017, 03:18 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(14-04-2017 03:00 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  Is it possible to believe but not want to worship?

As far as labels go (atheism etc) is concerned, what would that be called?

Being upright/upstanding? Big Grin
As in "I believe the godfather exists, but im not gonna pay that fucking protection money to his goons!"?

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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14-04-2017, 03:20 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(14-04-2017 03:00 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  Is it possible to believe but not want to worship?

As far as labels go (atheism etc) is concerned, what would that be called?

I think you would have been called a backslider or not a real Christian if you were in my former church.

Maybe one of those "lukewarm" believers that Jesus would spit out of his mouth. (Revelations 3:16)

It's stuff like this in the bible that pretty much makes the writers a bunch of assholes.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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14-04-2017, 05:40 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(14-04-2017 03:00 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  Is it possible to believe but not want to worship?

As far as labels go (atheism etc) is concerned, what would that be called?

Absolutely. Worshipping is a choice, but belief is not.

An apatheist simply doesn't care if there is a god or not; that's me. Belief is then irrelevant because no actions depend on it.

A maltheist believes there is a god but actively dislikes it. If I really believed the Christian God specifically was real, I'd be this.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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14-04-2017, 05:47 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(14-04-2017 05:40 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  Worshipping is a choice, but belief is not.

That's a curious claim. Worth a ponder at least.

#sigh
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14-04-2017, 05:53 PM (This post was last modified: 14-04-2017 06:05 PM by Robvalue.)
RE: Why I Believe
The most bizarre combination is worshipping something you don't believe exists. This probably goes on a lot, because of social pressure or just fear of a mistake. In fact I'm certain it does in some countries, but it would just be for show so that you don't get exiled/executed.

God could show up right to my face and I wouldn't worship it. Some theists I've talked to in the past seem utterly incapable of grasping this.

PS: If there is a creator, I'm virtually certain it would be wholly unconcerned with anything we ever do beyond mild curiosity. We are cosmically insignificant. And that's assuming it even notices us, or is even still paying any attention at all to this reality. If it made one, it's probably made many more.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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14-04-2017, 06:03 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(14-04-2017 05:53 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  The most bizarre combination is worshipping something you don't believe exists. This probably goes on a lot, because of social pressure or just fear of a mistake. In fact I'm certain it does in some countries, but it would just be for show so that you don't get exiled/executed.

God could show up right to my face and I wouldn't worship it. Some theists I've talked to in the past seem utterly incapable of grasping this.

i'm still working on the belief is not a choice bit. Might be something to that. It would also imply that neither is lack of belief. Curious.

#sigh
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