Why I Believe
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13-04-2017, 04:37 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(13-04-2017 04:21 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Thanks all for the replies, it makes sense
It did at the start and you saw the sense at the start. But something making sense isn't enough, it has to mesh with our feelings for belief to adjust itself to the sense. But the meshing doesn't start by meshing but by clashing, and it takes time for the machinery of emotion to rearrange itself into harmony with sense.

I hope you find your fears abating, entirely apart from religiosity, and if what's sensible can keep nudging your feelings clear of fear, so much the better. I'm impressed with your thoughtfulness and persistence.
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14-04-2017, 03:00 PM
RE: Why I Believe
Is it possible to believe but not want to worship?

As far as labels go (atheism etc) is concerned, what would that be called?

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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14-04-2017, 03:05 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(14-04-2017 03:00 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  Is it possible to believe but not want to worship?

As far as labels go (atheism etc) is concerned, what would that be called?

Rebel with a cause.

There is but one truly serious philosophical problem. - Camus
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14-04-2017, 03:18 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(14-04-2017 03:00 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  Is it possible to believe but not want to worship?

As far as labels go (atheism etc) is concerned, what would that be called?

Being upright/upstanding? Big Grin
As in "I believe the godfather exists, but im not gonna pay that fucking protection money to his goons!"?

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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14-04-2017, 03:20 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(14-04-2017 03:00 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  Is it possible to believe but not want to worship?

As far as labels go (atheism etc) is concerned, what would that be called?

I think you would have been called a backslider or not a real Christian if you were in my former church.

Maybe one of those "lukewarm" believers that Jesus would spit out of his mouth. (Revelations 3:16)

It's stuff like this in the bible that pretty much makes the writers a bunch of assholes.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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14-04-2017, 05:40 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(14-04-2017 03:00 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  Is it possible to believe but not want to worship?

As far as labels go (atheism etc) is concerned, what would that be called?

Absolutely. Worshipping is a choice, but belief is not.

An apatheist simply doesn't care if there is a god or not; that's me. Belief is then irrelevant because no actions depend on it.

A maltheist believes there is a god but actively dislikes it. If I really believed the Christian God specifically was real, I'd be this.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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14-04-2017, 05:47 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(14-04-2017 05:40 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  Worshipping is a choice, but belief is not.

That's a curious claim. Worth a ponder at least.

There is but one truly serious philosophical problem. - Camus
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14-04-2017, 05:53 PM (This post was last modified: 14-04-2017 06:05 PM by Robvalue.)
RE: Why I Believe
The most bizarre combination is worshipping something you don't believe exists. This probably goes on a lot, because of social pressure or just fear of a mistake. In fact I'm certain it does in some countries, but it would just be for show so that you don't get exiled/executed.

God could show up right to my face and I wouldn't worship it. Some theists I've talked to in the past seem utterly incapable of grasping this.

PS: If there is a creator, I'm virtually certain it would be wholly unconcerned with anything we ever do beyond mild curiosity. We are cosmically insignificant. And that's assuming it even notices us, or is even still paying any attention at all to this reality. If it made one, it's probably made many more.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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14-04-2017, 06:03 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(14-04-2017 05:53 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  The most bizarre combination is worshipping something you don't believe exists. This probably goes on a lot, because of social pressure or just fear of a mistake. In fact I'm certain it does in some countries, but it would just be for show so that you don't get exiled/executed.

God could show up right to my face and I wouldn't worship it. Some theists I've talked to in the past seem utterly incapable of grasping this.

i'm still working on the belief is not a choice bit. Might be something to that. It would also imply that neither is lack of belief. Curious.

There is but one truly serious philosophical problem. - Camus
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14-04-2017, 06:10 PM
RE: Why I Believe
But of course belief is not an option. I mean choice Rolleyes

I've no idea *how* I became religious (wasn't brainwashed or brought up with it for sure) nor why I lost god ('cause frankly, I very rarely lose my things, just the occasional phone and sunglasses). It was a mostly subconscious process and there was no choice involved. None at all. Hell, I prayed to the imaginary bastard to not let me lose my faith. You can all guess how that turned out (thank god, glory be and all that jazz Rolleyes )

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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