Why I Believe
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20-04-2017, 09:49 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(20-04-2017 09:37 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(20-04-2017 09:30 AM)Alla Wrote:  My favorite fairy tale is about ascension through the fall. First you fall as low as possible then ascension. Two OPPOSITES.

As others have noted, you are re-imagining a fable to mean the exact opposite of what it was intended to mean.

While you are free to do so, you cannot claim any justification for doing so, beyond personal desire.

Historical context, textual context, corroboration from other texts, cultural and religious interpretations - all coincide with the traditional interpretations.

But is this the traditional LDS interpretation? If so I can see why other Christian sects are reluctant to embrace Mormons as brothers and sisters in faith. I think it's kinda cool but I went to Lutheran school where we were taught we were founded by a vandal.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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20-04-2017, 09:49 AM
RE: Why I Believe
Interesting fact (well, I think so), nowhere in the bible are we told the serpent was satan

Was the serpent then Satan? Although the Bible tells us that ‘Satan himself is transformed into an angel of Light’, or ‘masquerades as an angel of light’ (2 Corinthians 11:14), there are difficulties in assuming that something like this happened in the Garden of Eden. Theologian Henry C. Thiessen comments:

‘… the serpent is neither a figurative description of Satan, nor is it Satan in the form of a serpent. The real serpent was the agent in Satan’s hand. This is evident from the description of the reptile in Genesis 3:1 and the curse pronounced upon it in 3:14 [… upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy Life ].’

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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20-04-2017, 09:52 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(20-04-2017 09:49 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  ‘… the serpent is neither a figurative description of Satan, nor is it Satan in the form of a serpent. The real serpent was the agent in Satan’s hand.

So Satan's emissary or ambassador then.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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20-04-2017, 09:58 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(20-04-2017 09:52 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(20-04-2017 09:49 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  ‘… the serpent is neither a figurative description of Satan, nor is it Satan in the form of a serpent. The real serpent was the agent in Satan’s hand.

So Satan's emissary or ambassador then.
Could be.

Also, Christadelphians (not sure if the above quotes were by Christadelphians, but just saying that they) do not believe in a literal satan entity. They believe the talking serpent was just that - a talking serpent. Something to do with how different the garden was before the fall.

Also, Genesis says the serpent was the craftiest of all 'beasts' that were made.

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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20-04-2017, 09:59 AM
RE: Why I Believe
In this day and age, where we have landed a probe on a comet, have a pretty good idea of how the universe began and how it will probably end, where there are people who even have mind-boggling but scientifically valid ideas of what was before, so to speak, the Big Bang, it is apparently considered a worthwhile endeavour to try and figure out whether a talking snake was an embodiment of a mythological creature, its agent or just a cheeky reptile, fond of practical jokes.

Boggles the mind.

(Was not aimed at anyone in particular. I just find it such an indescribably sad waste of intellectual potential. Hell, of a life. Undecided )

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20-04-2017, 09:59 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(20-04-2017 09:49 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  But is this the traditional LDS interpretation? If so I can see why other Christian sects are reluctant to embrace Mormons as brothers and sisters in faith. I think it's kinda cool but I went to Lutheran school where we were taught we were founded by a vandal.

I checked Wikipedia:

Quote:The Adam–God doctrine (or Adam–God theory) was a theological doctrine taught in mid-19th century Mormonism by church president Brigham Young, and accepted to some degree by later presidents John Taylor, and Wilford Woodruff, and by apostles who served under them in the leadership of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). Although rejected today by the LDS Church, the doctrine is still an accepted part of the modern theology of some Mormon fundamentalists. According to Young, he was taught by Joseph Smith that Adam is "our Father and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do".

According to the doctrine, Adam was once a mortal man who became resurrected and exalted. From another planet, he then came as Michael to form Earth. Adam brought Eve, one of his wives, with him to Earth, where they became mortal by eating the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden. After bearing mortal children and establishing the human race, Adam and Eve returned to their heavenly thrones where Adam serves as God and is the Heavenly Father of humankind. Later, Adam returned to the Earth to the ancient prophets, and to become the literal father of Jesus.

Apparently, this is LDS belief, but not all Mormons.

I'll revise my post accordingly.

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20-04-2017, 10:16 AM
RE: Why I Believe
also from wiki:

Quote:Michael was not the only creator god, however, as he was a member of a council of Earth's creator gods, which also included the gods "Elohim" and "Jehovah".

Didn't know LDS were a stones-throw away from being Scientologists...Drinking Beverage

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20-04-2017, 10:41 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(20-04-2017 10:16 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  also from wiki:

Quote:Michael was not the only creator god, however, as he was a member of a council of Earth's creator gods, which also included the gods "Elohim" and "Jehovah".

Didn't know LDS were a stones-throw away from being Scientologists...Drinking Beverage

Oh yea - they got other planets and other worlds that figure into their stories. All religions are derivitive of stories brought from afar and mixed with local lore.

Try reading the Qur'an - it's a hoot - dry but still, just as krazy. There are evil genies (Jin) and all kinds of goofy shit going on - and even Jesus & Mary are in there.

Star Wars could probably be relegated to the pantheon of religious lore - especially since there are rogue texts and anterior stories. Drinking Beverage

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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20-04-2017, 10:58 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(20-04-2017 10:16 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  also from wiki:

Quote:Michael was not the only creator god, however, as he was a member of a council of Earth's creator gods, which also included the gods "Elohim" and "Jehovah".

Didn't know LDS were a stones-throw away from being Scientologists...Drinking Beverage

Well they do sound about as batshit crazy.
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20-04-2017, 11:13 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(20-04-2017 08:40 AM)Alla Wrote:  
unfogged Wrote:If Adam and Eve did not already have knowledge of good and evil then they had no way to know that disobeying had consequences.
They knew what consequences would be but they would never experience them if they didn't break commandment. You don't know what pain is until you experience it. You don't know what injustice is until you experience it, or until you see someone is experiencing it.

They had never seen or experienced death. They had been told the consequence was death but that could have no meaning to them. They did not know right and wrong so they could not make an informed decision on whether to obey or not. the entire story is a plot hole.

Quote:
unfogged Wrote:The "test" was completely unfair in every way
Who says that it was the test?
The Bible(fairy tale)?
I don't think so.

No, the quote I was replying to at the time described it as a test. If you notice I put quotes around the word to show that I did not regard it as a test because that's an inane apologetic to try to patch up an inane story.

The only thing more ridiculous that the common Christian version of the story is the LDS interpretation of it.

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