Why I Believe
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21-04-2017, 03:06 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(21-04-2017 11:07 AM)Alla Wrote:  ... I believe that planets and stars have spirit (intelligence). They obey natural laws.

I can only presume that you're taking the piss Alla, or that you've totally lost your marbles?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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21-04-2017, 03:12 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(21-04-2017 11:33 AM)Alla Wrote:  
Robvalue Wrote:Is there something else? Even if there is, and it's pulling the strings and is independent from our bodies, it still clearly requires the brain as a medium.
If I screw with your brain in the right way, I can mess with your memories, emotions, or even your personality. This spirit-thing cannot bypass it. So it's only sensible to conclude that if I remove the brain entirely, any such spirit has no tools left with which to control "you".
Or we can think this way: let's say that spirit(male or female) has eyes, ears, brain, heart, legs, arms and other organs. Let's say that spirit can be independent from physical body. He or she can exist without physical body. He or she can see and hear things, or have feelings

Let's pretend that spirit is placed inside of physical mortal body that has brain damage, or has blind eyes or deaf ears. What happens then?
I will use analogy to show what I believe happens:
Let's say I have perfect vision. Let's say I was placed in a huge glass jar. This jar is made of green glass and surface has lots of imperfections. What happens if I look through this glass jar? Would I see the world the same way?
No. My ability of seeing the world will be different. It will be screwed up.
But does it mean that something wrong with my eyes? No. My eyes are still good. As soon as I am out of this glass jar I see things I couldn't see inside of it.

Spirit in imperfect mortal physical body doesn't see the world the way he or she sees it outside of this physical body.
The same with ability to think and to remember or to hear.
Nothing happens to brain of spirit in imperfect mortal physical body the same as nothing happens to my eyes in green glass jar. ALL MEMORIES are stored. As soon as spirit leaves imperfect physical mortal body spirit remembers perfectly everything what happened to him/her inside of imperfect(damaged) physical body.

> Fine, except for the fact that you have no evidence, whatsoever, for the existence of a human soul or spirit. Dodgy
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21-04-2017, 05:24 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(20-04-2017 09:41 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(20-04-2017 09:15 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  They are crafty.

Oh? Ya think I could talk Aliza into making me a nice quilt?

I've never made a quilt before. We usually outsource that to the Amish.

You need your taxes done, you go to the Jews. You need a good attorney? Go to the Jews. You need that thing looked at on your foot? Go to the Jews. You need a sea-worthy craft made of gopher wood, 60 or 70 cubits in length, which can safely carry you across the Atlantic ocean? Go to the Jews. Ship building is a basic skill we're all expected to master by the time of our Bar or Bat Mitzvahs.

I can't quilt, but I can spin linen and craft a sail in no time.
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21-04-2017, 07:26 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(21-04-2017 03:12 PM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  
(21-04-2017 11:33 AM)Alla Wrote:  Or we can think this way: let's say that spirit(male or female) has eyes, ears, brain, heart, legs, arms and other organs. Let's say that spirit can be independent from physical body. He or she can exist without physical body. He or she can see and hear things, or have feelings

Let's pretend that spirit is placed inside of physical mortal body that has brain damage, or has blind eyes or deaf ears. What happens then?
I will use analogy to show what I believe happens:
Let's say I have perfect vision. Let's say I was placed in a huge glass jar. This jar is made of green glass and surface has lots of imperfections. What happens if I look through this glass jar? Would I see the world the same way?
No. My ability of seeing the world will be different. It will be screwed up.
But does it mean that something wrong with my eyes? No. My eyes are still good. As soon as I am out of this glass jar I see things I couldn't see inside of it.

Spirit in imperfect mortal physical body doesn't see the world the way he or she sees it outside of this physical body.
The same with ability to think and to remember or to hear.
Nothing happens to brain of spirit in imperfect mortal physical body the same as nothing happens to my eyes in green glass jar. ALL MEMORIES are stored. As soon as spirit leaves imperfect physical mortal body spirit remembers perfectly everything what happened to him/her inside of imperfect(damaged) physical body.

> Fine, except for the fact that you have no evidence, whatsoever, for the existence of a human soul or spirit. Dodgy

This is also a case of making up special rules so that the unevidenced thing appears to not exist. It would mean our bodies, and even our brain, aren't "us" at all. In fact, it turns our bodies into a detriment to the real "us". In this narrative, it sounds like the spirit has its own eyes to see things with, and its own brain. This is a giveaway as to its metaphorical nature. It's really just a summary of us.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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21-04-2017, 07:29 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(21-04-2017 05:24 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(20-04-2017 09:41 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Oh? Ya think I could talk Aliza into making me a nice quilt?

I've never made a quilt before. We usually outsource that to the Amish.

You need your taxes done, you go to the Jews. You need a good attorney? Go to the Jews. You need that thing looked at on your foot? Go to the Jews. You need a sea-worthy craft made of gopher wood, 60 or 70 cubits in length, which can safely carry you across the Atlantic ocean? Go to the Jews. Ship building is a basic skill we're all expected to master by the time of our Bar or Bat Mitzvahs.

I can't quilt, but I can spin linen and craft a sail in no time.

I knew it.

#sigh
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21-04-2017, 07:49 PM
RE: Why I Believe
Scientists have found some evidence that suggests Jews are an entirely different species that evolved from a fifty pound note. That's why they are very protective about cutting off bits of their nobs. It represents finally breaking the note and getting change. It's a big deal and it cheapens it if everyone goes around doing it.

Do girl Jews have nobs? Hmm. Are they allowed money? Maybe the girl ones evolved from something else. More science is needed.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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22-04-2017, 12:11 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(21-04-2017 07:49 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  Scientists have found some evidence that suggests Jews are an entirely different species that evolved from a fifty pound note. That's why they are very protective about cutting off bits of their nobs. It represents finally breaking the note and getting change. It's a big deal and it cheapens it if everyone goes around doing it.

Do girl Jews have nobs? Hmm. Are they allowed money? Maybe the girl ones evolved from something else. More science is needed.

Jewish women generally control the family money and have money of their own separate from family money for the purpose of her independence and security. Jewish law, even in ancient times, aimed to ensure a woman's financial security independent from her husband. Today, Jewish women in Haradi homes are very often the bread earner.

Yes, we ladies also evolved from the 50 pound note and we're proud of that fact. Big Grin
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22-04-2017, 01:23 AM
RE: Why I Believe
It's happened again Sad

I was watching a Youtube video on testing prayer. It mentioned how the bible was clear that if you prayer in Jesus' name, what you pray for will come to pass. So I tried the test. I prayed three times.

I took five 6 sided dice (as that video suggested) and first prayed that when I rolled the dice, all the dice would come up a 6. They didn’t.

Then I prayed a second time, this time for four of the d6s to come up a 6. They didn’t.

I then prayed a third time asking for three of the d6s to come up a 6. They didn’t.

About a minute or two later I glanced at the T.V and on the sports news channel, there was a clip showing Kenny Miller celebrated a goal with another player and Miller pointed to the sky with one hand. Sucks

I know folk will say "Oh that's convenient - when a specific situation was prayed for, nothing happens, but then a coincidence happens and that's your evidence!?"

But I feel as if God is teaching me a lesson here and it's as if He is saying "You know not to test me, but, seeing as you prayed...remember Kenny Miller? There's your answer."

Something like that. Really sucks

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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22-04-2017, 01:53 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(22-04-2017 01:23 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  It's happened again Sad

I was watching a Youtube video on testing prayer. It mentioned how the bible was clear that if you prayer in Jesus' name, what you pray for will come to pass. So I tried the test. I prayed three times.

I took five 6 sided dice (as that video suggested) and first prayed that when I rolled the dice, all the dice would come up a 6. They didn’t.

Then I prayed a second time, this time for four of the d6s to come up a 6. They didn’t.

I then prayed a third time asking for three of the d6s to come up a 6. They didn’t.

About a minute or two later I glanced at the T.V and on the sports news channel, there was a clip showing Kenny Miller celebrated a goal with another player and Miller pointed to the sky with one hand. Sucks

I know folk will say "Oh that's convenient - when a specific situation was prayed for, nothing happens, but then a coincidence happens and that's your evidence!?"

But I feel as if God is teaching me a lesson here and it's as if He is saying "You know not to test me, but, seeing as you prayed...remember Kenny Miller? There's your answer."

Something like that. Really sucks

And yet no god told you anything, that's you just trying to figure it out on your own based on the countless contradictory fairy tales you've read.

Better proof would lay in the statistics. If there was a god changing things it would show, not because people are testing him but any intervention that favors anyone would become readily apparent. A coincidence is a coincidence. I would suggest watching Rick and Morty the episode with the giant head. (get shwifty) it goes into this exact topic.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
Big Grin
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22-04-2017, 03:06 AM (This post was last modified: 22-04-2017 03:20 AM by SeaJay.)
RE: Why I Believe
If I think about it, it truly is absolutely ridiculous to think the Supreme Almighty Creator of the Universe, the Entity that created black holes, billions of galaxies and sextillion of stars, is using Scottish footballer Kenny Miller to communicate with me.

It's comical how my mind works on times. Scary too.

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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