Why I Believe
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 3 Votes - 3 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
06-04-2017, 02:00 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(05-04-2017 02:18 PM)kim Wrote:  You people talk too much. Angry You made my soup cold.
That got an 'lol' out of me Big Grin

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-04-2017, 03:03 AM
RE: Why I Believe
I thought it might be useful to list the 2 main reasons why I believe (other than fear). I regularly hear two complaints against the bible, (i) it's plain wrong on certain facts (I'll use the creation story in Genesis) and (ii) it's full of contradictions:

1. I do not believe the creation story in Genesis was intended to be read as a scientific paper. As Galileo once said (I think) "The bible teaches us how to go to heaven not how the heavens go."

So when I hear people saying things "how can you believe in Christianity when the bible claims the earth was made before the sun?, or "the bible can't decide if man was made before or after the beasts[/i[", it doesn't have much of an effect on me. The two accounts of creation in Genesis are known and believed to be different and the explanation is that they are two different styles in telling the creation account. Also, I ask myself, the two creation stories are very different in parts, to the point where the author(s) [i]must have realised this. If so, why wasn't anything edited? I think it is because the different styles were intended, or at least, not seen as problematic.

2. Of all the contradictions mentioned in the bible, I really believe that most are......dare I say it......taken out of context or can easily be explained away. I'll list two examples:

“And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen” (I Kings 4:26)

“And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen” (II Chronicles 9:25)

One passage tells of the number of horses while the other tells of the number of stalls for horses and chariots. They had ten horses and ten men per chariot. The same ratio is seen in

II Samuel 10:18 “And the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew the men of seven hundred chariots of the Syrians.”

I Chronicles 19:18 “But the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew of the Syrians seven thousand men which fought in chariots.”

And

James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

James, is speaking of the sanctification element which is also a part of the salvation process. We are saved by faith alone, but faith is not alone. Real faith produces real works. If Christians do not have real works then they do not have real faith.

Galatians 2:16 Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Paul in Galatians is speaking of the root or the initiation of salvation. We are saved (in this sense) by faith alone. Our works cannot bring us into that initial entrance of a relationship with Christ.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I would be very interested in trying to answer some glaring contradictions you have found in the bible. I'll do the legwork, you just post them. It's been a good few number of years since I looked into this but I'm absolutely certain there are some (lots) I haven't heard of. Please though, don't post numerous contradictions, just post one or two you think are real howlers. It's always been in the back of my mind that I'm ok with the so called contradictions, so perhaps it's time to put that to the test.

I could go to the sceptics annotated bible or other similar sites, but I'd just get swamped by the amount of information there. That's why I'd like you to post your choice contradictions so I can see if I can figure them out.

Also, any opinions you have on my view of the two creation accounts in Genesis would be interesting too.

Thanks all.

EDIT: I'm honestly not trying to preach here, I am doing this for me to look at what I believe and see if it really stands up to scrutiny.

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes SeaJay's post
06-04-2017, 03:15 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(06-04-2017 03:03 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  I thought it might be useful to list the 2 main reasons why I believe (other than fear). I regularly hear two complaints against the bible, (i) it's plain wrong on certain facts (I'll use the creation story in Genesis) and (ii) it's full of contradictions:

1. I do not believe the creation story in Genesis was intended to be read as a scientific paper. As Galileo once said (I think) "The bible teaches us how to go to heaven not how the heavens go."

So when I hear people saying things "how can you believe in Christianity when the bible claims the earth was made before the sun?, or "the bible can't decide if man was made before or after the beasts[/i[", it doesn't have much of an effect on me. The two accounts of creation in Genesis are known and believed to be different and the explanation is that they are two different styles in telling the creation account. Also, I ask myself, the two creation stories are very different in parts, to the point where the author(s) [i]must have realised this. If so, why wasn't anything edited? I think it is because the different styles were intended, or at least, not seen as problematic.

2. Of all the contradictions mentioned in the bible, I really believe that most are......dare I say it......taken out of context or can easily be explained away. I'll list two examples:

“And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen” (I Kings 4:26)

“And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen” (II Chronicles 9:25)

One passage tells of the number of horses while the other tells of the number of stalls for horses and chariots. They had ten horses and ten men per chariot. The same ratio is seen in

II Samuel 10:18 “And the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew the men of seven hundred chariots of the Syrians.”

I Chronicles 19:18 “But the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew of the Syrians seven thousand men which fought in chariots.”

And

James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

James, is speaking of the sanctification element which is also a part of the salvation process. We are saved by faith alone, but faith is not alone. Real faith produces real works. If Christians do not have real works then they do not have real faith.

Galatians 2:16 Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Paul in Galatians is speaking of the root or the initiation of salvation. We are saved (in this sense) by faith alone. Our works cannot bring us into that initial entrance of a relationship with Christ.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I would be very interested in trying to answer some glaring contradictions you have found in the bible. I'll do the legwork, you just post them. It's been a good few number of years since I looked into this but I'm absolutely certain there are some (lots) I haven't heard of. Please though, don't post numerous contradictions, just post one or two you think are real howlers. It's always been in the back of my mind that I'm ok with the so called contradictions, so perhaps it's time to put that to the test.

I could go to the sceptics annotated bible or other similar sites, but I'd just get swamped by the amount of information there. That's why I'd like you to post your choice contradictions so I can see if I can figure them out.

Also, any opinions you have on my view of the two creation accounts in Genesis would be interesting too.

Thanks all.

EDIT: I'm honestly not trying to preach here, I am doing this for me to look at what I believe and see if it really stands up to scrutiny.


Okay then, apply that same reasoning to the Book of Mormon and the Quran. Then tell us how well it goes when you try to rectify the claims of mutual exclusivity.

I mean, cause if this line of reasoning is good enough for the Bible, why apply a different standard to the Book of Mormon or the Quran? What justification do you have to treat the Christian Bible so, but no other holy books? Have you even tried exploring other religions, or did you just default to the cultural norm?

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like EvolutionKills's post
06-04-2017, 03:19 AM
RE: Why I Believe
Before we go into Bible contradictions, why should one care what the Bible says at all? It's just priestly bullshit. Where's the evidence that your God even exists?

Christians seem to love to gloss over this shit and skip straight to analysing the Bible itself and they've invented all sorts of fun excuses on that side of things - "It's not really a contradiction", "You need to read it in the original Hebrew", "There's no evidence that it *couldn't* have happened that way" blah blah blah.

But all of that stuff is utterly meaningless if your God doesn't exist in the first place. So start with that. Show evidence that God exists. Otherwise all that other nit-picky stuff is just people arguing about the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin - completely pointless.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 9 users Like morondog's post
06-04-2017, 03:48 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(06-04-2017 03:03 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  I thought it might be useful to list the 2 main reasons why I believe (other than fear). I regularly hear two complaints against the bible, (i) it's plain wrong on certain facts (I'll use the creation story in Genesis) and (ii) it's full of contradictions:

1. I do not believe the creation story in Genesis was intended to be read as a scientific paper. As Galileo once said (I think) "The bible teaches us how to go to heaven not how the heavens go."

So when I hear people saying things "how can you believe in Christianity when the bible claims the earth was made before the sun?, or "the bible can't decide if man was made before or after the beasts[/i[", it doesn't have much of an effect on me. The two accounts of creation in Genesis are known and believed to be different and the explanation is that they are two different styles in telling the creation account. Also, I ask myself, the two creation stories are very different in parts, to the point where the author(s) [i]must have realised this. If so, why wasn't anything edited? I think it is because the different styles were intended, or at least, not seen as problematic.

2. Of all the contradictions mentioned in the bible, I really believe that most are......dare I say it......taken out of context or can easily be explained away. I'll list two examples:

“And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen” (I Kings 4:26)

“And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen” (II Chronicles 9:25)

One passage tells of the number of horses while the other tells of the number of stalls for horses and chariots. They had ten horses and ten men per chariot. The same ratio is seen in

II Samuel 10:18 “And the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew the men of seven hundred chariots of the Syrians.”

I Chronicles 19:18 “But the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew of the Syrians seven thousand men which fought in chariots.”

And

James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

James, is speaking of the sanctification element which is also a part of the salvation process. We are saved by faith alone, but faith is not alone. Real faith produces real works. If Christians do not have real works then they do not have real faith.

Galatians 2:16 Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Paul in Galatians is speaking of the root or the initiation of salvation. We are saved (in this sense) by faith alone. Our works cannot bring us into that initial entrance of a relationship with Christ.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I would be very interested in trying to answer some glaring contradictions you have found in the bible. I'll do the legwork, you just post them. It's been a good few number of years since I looked into this but I'm absolutely certain there are some (lots) I haven't heard of. Please though, don't post numerous contradictions, just post one or two you think are real howlers. It's always been in the back of my mind that I'm ok with the so called contradictions, so perhaps it's time to put that to the test.

I could go to the sceptics annotated bible or other similar sites, but I'd just get swamped by the amount of information there. That's why I'd like you to post your choice contradictions so I can see if I can figure them out.

Also, any opinions you have on my view of the two creation accounts in Genesis would be interesting too.

Thanks all.

EDIT: I'm honestly not trying to preach here, I am doing this for me to look at what I believe and see if it really stands up to scrutiny.

There are several problems here.

It is not best practice to begin by assuming a claim is true and then challenging people to prove it is false. Instead, it is better to ask for evidence why the claim is true. The argument that a claim is true because it can't be shown to be false is called the "argument from ignorance fallacy". It's a very common error in thinking, which I explain in detail in the video below.

As I mentioned before, there are an infinite number of claims we could consider, and a finite amount of time in our lives. So we should prioritise those claims which have some positive evidence which can demonstrate that they are possibly true. Those that don't have any are mere assertions, and are not worth our attention.

Also, even if you can prove that some parts of the bible "are true", that certainly doesn't mean that the whole thing is true. So this is a pointless task. Any particular claim from the book should be taken on its own merits, and should require its own evidence. Historical claims can be checked against any independent evidence that we have, such as archeological findings and other accounts from the period. Claims containing things not yet even shown to be possible such as Gods existing, incredible beings directly influencing reality and people coming back to life, would require a mountain of evidence before they could even be taken at all seriously. It should be an indication that you are reading an account that is at least partly fictional. Think about how you would come to this conclusion with any random story you picked up. Again, people fall back on the argument from ignorance and ask you to prove they did not happen. This is not how a sane person would approach Lord of the Rings.

The argument is often, "how could the people of that time known about so and so"? Usually, the answer is that they didn't, and current findings have been retrofitted to the texts. But even if they did know it, the answer is, "we don't know how they got this information". It doesn't make anything else they have to say magically true, nor does it automatically mean the claim they make about where they got the information is true. It could be any number of ways.

Lastly, coming back to the problem of fear, it's well documented that emotions are not an accurate guide to truth. They can provide warnings, and perhaps starting points for investigations, but they should never be the deciding factor when dealing with matters of fact such as "does such and such exist" or "did such and such really happen". Emotions should be reserved as a basis for value judgements such as morality.

I'm someone who has never been indoctrinated into any religion. I can see through all of them for the utter bullshit that they are. I dismiss your religion for the same reasons you instantly dismiss all the others. It's just that you've been mentally programmed to accept your religion without question. That in itself should be a warning sign. Nothing that is true requires protection from curiosity. This is not your fault; you are a victim. And anyhow, does a being demanding worship deserve it? And why would you trust such a monster to keep its word even if you did do everything it said?




I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 9 users Like Robvalue's post
06-04-2017, 05:28 AM (This post was last modified: 06-04-2017 10:03 AM by Vera.)
RE: Why I Believe
Sorry if it's been asked and answered already, but if the bible is god's own - infallible - word, why did it need to/why did he allow it to get edited? Couldn't he just come out and say, plain and simple, what he had to say?

Like, not follow a measly middle eastern tribe around like a crazed stalker (complete with threats and the occasional genocide), but appear, to the whole world and say: Here I am. I made you and I expect* so and so from you. Here are my rules: don't kill each other, don't rape each other, don't have slaves, women and homosexuals, and black people are people, too. Be good to each other and not just to *your* tribe.


*I won't even bother asking why he should expect anything (least of all genuflecting and chest-beating). It's not like we expect our children to grovel before us or do *exactly* as we tell them, else... [Image: bully.gif]

So, how exactly do we go to heaven? 'cause all the Xtians I know have a different idea. Seems like the bible didn't do that good of a job with that either.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like Vera's post
06-04-2017, 05:46 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(06-04-2017 03:03 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  I thought it might be useful to list the 2 main reasons why I believe (other than fear). I regularly hear two complaints against the bible, (i) it's plain wrong on certain facts (I'll use the creation story in Genesis) and (ii) it's full of contradictions:

1. I do not believe the creation story in Genesis was intended to be read as a scientific paper. As Galileo once said (I think) "The bible teaches us how to go to heaven not how the heavens go."

So when I hear people saying things "how can you believe in Christianity when the bible claims the earth was made before the sun?, or "the bible can't decide if man was made before or after the beasts[/i[", it doesn't have much of an effect on me. The two accounts of creation in Genesis are known and believed to be different and the explanation is that they are two different styles in telling the creation account. Also, I ask myself, the two creation stories are very different in parts, to the point where the author(s) [i]must have realised this. If so, why wasn't anything edited? I think it is because the different styles were intended, or at least, not seen as problematic.

If you aren't a biblical literalist then the argument that the bible is factually wrong won't carry any weight with you.

If you accept the bible as parables and allegories that were inspired by a god then the question I have is why would an omnipotent god choose to reveal himself in such an indirect and imperfect manner? The biblical stories can be interpreted in many different ways so the bible has generated more confusion than anything else. It simply makes no sense that the god that Christians typically envision would use that as the means of communicating.

What does make sense is that it is a collection of primitive myths right in line with the thousands of other god myths from all area of the world. the only difference is that these are the myths that we tend to be more familiar with.

Quote:2. Of all the contradictions mentioned in the bible, I really believe that most are......dare I say it......taken out of context or can easily be explained away. I'll list two examples:

“And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen” (I Kings 4:26)

“And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen” (II Chronicles 9:25)

One passage tells of the number of horses while the other tells of the number of stalls for horses and chariots. They had ten horses and ten men per chariot.

Well, except that both specifically say that they are numbering the stalls and the idea of 10 horses per stall really doesn't make sense since that's not how horses are typically kept. Neither makes much sense in terms of the ratio of horsemen to horses anyway. It's pretty obvious that a copyist error occurred somewhere along the line and at least one of the two is just wrong.

If you are willing to ignore the actual text in order to resolve discrepancies then I agree that there is nothing you can't patch up to make it seem consistent. It's like the two different genealogies of Jesus that both claim to go through Joseph and yet apologists say one is really through Mary. Not only does that claim not make sense since Mary's line would not have been meaningful, it explicitly says something else.

Quote: The same ratio is seen in

II Samuel 10:18 “And the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew the men of seven hundred chariots of the Syrians.”

I Chronicles 19:18 “But the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew of the Syrians seven thousand men which fought in chariots.”

Then it should be easy to find historical backing that they fought 10 men per chariot... have you ever tried to find that? If not, why would you just assume that it must be so because if it weren't the bible would be wrong? Why not consider that perhaps there is a factual error in the text?

Quote:And

James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

James, is speaking of the sanctification element which is also a part of the salvation process. We are saved by faith alone, but faith is not alone. Real faith produces real works. If Christians do not have real works then they do not have real faith.

Nice dodge, but it's pretty thin. Read up on the history of the early church. There were many different versions of Christianity including a major divide over whether Christians had to be Jews and follow Jewish laws or not. The "not" side eventually won out. Some threads of those early divisions can still be found in the texts and Christians have come up with a lot of fancy footwork to try to paper over the obvious differences.

Quote:Galatians 2:16 Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Paul in Galatians is speaking of the root or the initiation of salvation. We are saved (in this sense) by faith alone. Our works cannot bring us into that initial entrance of a relationship with Christ.

Read some Bart Ehrman or Richard Carrier on early Christianity. They don't teach in church what the scholars (and most ministers) know about it.

Quote:I would be very interested in trying to answer some glaring contradictions you have found in the bible. I'll do the legwork, you just post them. It's been a good few number of years since I looked into this but I'm absolutely certain there are some (lots) I haven't heard of. Please though, don't post numerous contradictions, just post one or two you think are real howlers. It's always been in the back of my mind that I'm ok with the so called contradictions, so perhaps it's time to put that to the test.

I could go to the sceptics annotated bible or other similar sites, but I'd just get swamped by the amount of information there. That's why I'd like you to post your choice contradictions so I can see if I can figure them out.

Frankly, I don't see much value in it if you are willing to ignore the actual text and don't back up claims with extra-biblical references that can be verified. All apparent contradictions can be easily explained if you are allowed to say "what the writer REALLY meant was X and not what he actually wrote".

When faced with a contradiction it is not reasonable to simply resolve it according to what you already believe unless you can provide evidence to back up the claim.

Quote:Also, any opinions you have on my view of the two creation accounts in Genesis would be interesting too.

Thanks all.

I think they are easily explained as two popular creation myths being merged into one book and that trying to reconcile them results in a loss. Each needs to be read on its own to try to understand the thinking of the culture that created them.

Quote:EDIT: I'm honestly not trying to preach here, I am doing this for me to look at what I believe and see if it really stands up to scrutiny.

But if you are doing that by seeing if you can find any way at all to twist things so that they can be accounted for by your beliefs then you will never really know, you will just continue to believe. Of course the bible can be read to be consistent with Christianity... it was compiled, edited and/or written by Christians over hundreds of years and only things that could be reconciled were kept.

The main point is that the bible is not the evidence, it is the claim. It is no more evidence for the Christian god than the Iliad is the evidence for Zeus.

I really suggest you read some of Bart Ehrman's books like Misquoting Jesus or Jesus, Interrupted for a better understanding of how the bible came to be.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 8 users Like unfogged's post
06-04-2017, 06:20 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(06-04-2017 03:03 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  I thought it might be useful to list the 2 main reasons why I believe (other than fear)

I'd rather see you address more of the responses you have received. Because frankly you're starting to sound a bit preachy.

Regarding the bible: Which version?

(Damn, I'm getting tired of asking that question. Maybe we should make that a sticky or something? If you quote the bible, give the version. I dunno.)

Regarding genesis: It's poorly written, misogynistic fable. I've heard that there are additional Hebrew texts that offer explanatory materials and additional information that adds context to the Old Testament. However, those texts were not included in the Christian canon. Go figure.

(06-04-2017 03:03 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  2. Of all the contradictions mentioned in the bible, I really believe that most are......dare I say it......taken out of context or can easily be explained away.

Really? I'd say that you are flat out wrong. More on this below.

(06-04-2017 03:03 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  James ....

Spare me your preaching.

You want contradictions?

How about the contradictions on whether Christians have to follow Hebrew law?
Depends on which gospel you read.

How about the contradiction of a tripartite god being one deity?
Or the father third impregnating a virgin, via the spirit third, with the son third.

How the fuck is that easily explained?

On a side note, if the virgin was impregnated via the "holy spirit" does that make the "holy spirit" the penis of god??? That puts the phrase "and the holy spirit came upon them" in a very, very different light... Shocking

I have to admit, you are starting to annoy me.

(06-04-2017 03:03 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  I would be very interested in trying to answer some glaring contradictions you have found in the bible. I'll do the legwork, you just post them. It's been a good few number of years since I looked into this but I'm absolutely certain there are some (lots) I haven't heard of.

Then how can you be so sure that:
(06-04-2017 03:03 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  2. Of all the contradictions mentioned in the bible, I really believe that most are......dare I say it......taken out of context or can easily be explained away.

That's a contradiction in itself, isn't it?

(06-04-2017 03:03 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Please though, don't post numerous contradictions, just post one or two you think are real howlers.

Seriously? You're too lazy to do your own work, you ask us to do said work, then you ask us to do said work poorly. WTF?

(06-04-2017 03:03 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  I could go to the sceptics annotated bible or other similar sites, but I'd just get swamped by the amount of information there.

Or you're afraid you might actually learn something.
Or you're too lazy.
Or you're not here to learn, just to preach bad apologetics.

(06-04-2017 03:03 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  EDIT: I'm honestly not trying to preach here, I am doing this for me to look at what I believe and see if it really stands up to scrutiny.

Yeah, well I don't believe you.

Do your own research.
Start with the SAB.
Verify the information you uncover.
Some of the contradictions are trivial. Many are not.

But the numbers don't really matter.
Because if the book was written by an omnipotent deity, there should not be any contradictions.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 6 users Like Fatbaldhobbit's post
06-04-2017, 06:31 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(06-04-2017 03:03 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  One passage tells of the number of horses while the other tells of the number of stalls for horses and chariots. They had ten horses and ten men per chariot.

Yeah, as unfogged noted already, cite this.

The roman racing chariots had 4 horses and one rider. War chariots seem to have had one driver and one archer/warrior/whatever.

Chariots
(that's a link, a citation, giving the source of my information. :thumbsupSmile

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Fatbaldhobbit's post
06-04-2017, 07:05 AM
RE: Why I Believe
(06-04-2017 03:03 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  2. Of all the contradictions mentioned in the bible, I really believe that most are......dare I say it......taken out of context or can easily be explained away. I'll list two examples:

EDIT: I'm honestly not trying to preach here, I am doing this for me to look at what I believe and see if it really stands up to scrutiny.

It's not up to us to prove the bible is wrong, in fact you have already conceded that with the "metaphor" defense of Genesis.

Now it sounds like you're just another passive-aggressive believer that thought you were clever by pretending to doubt, then charge into a headlong defense of the very thing that has caused you so much anguish.

If you really are what you say you are, then you should be accepting of these criticisms without trying to defend it. Either you are committed to rejecting the truth of this story book or you are playing dishonest games with us and yourself.

I posted earlier that apologists are liars, why are you going through apologist's arguments?

Are you going to defend the nonsense or reject it?

If you can't be honest with yourself, then why engage in this?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like TheInquisition's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: